The Last Jedi was super cool though. It was truly the last Jedi i ever saw, well the last Star Wars content basically.
It was a Star Wars movie for wet blankets. No fun allowed in this action adventure movie!
It was half of a good movie, which is more than can be said of the other two sequels.
You get all the adults now who like the prequels even though they’re terrible because it’s what they grew up with, so of course that means now we’re getting a generation for whom the Rey trilogy is their Star Wars.
You get all the adults now who like the prequels even though they’re terrible
The prequels had the core of a good story, alongside some very bad direction and post-production decisions.
The Fall of the Republic as this merchantile skirmish that grows out of control, the Jedi as a schloratic band of liberals who have had their orthodoxy exploited, and the Republic itself as an engine of immiseration that ultimately needed to fail in order to pave the way for something better are all themes it is easy to sympathize with in the modern moment.
Yeah, the CGI was clumsy, the dialogue was stiff, and the comedy asides were cringe. But the lore was strong. It gave birth to a second renaissance in the Extended Universe.
The Sequels simply did not have any of that storytelling and world building. What wasn’t blatantly ripped off from the OS was sloppily presented, resolved, retconned, and then ignored. The Sequels pillaged the EU for material that was wasted almost as quickly as it was revealed. And this, when Timothy Zahn had already written some of the best sequel material 30 years earlier.
The Sequels won’t be anyone’s Star Wars, because it was slop. Rogue One, The Mandelorian, The Clone Wars TV Show, the Star Wars anime spin-offs - these are what will endure.
The EU material was beautiful steak, and then they let RJ and JJ slop em up. I mean it was fun watching Luke die himself to death at Maskopher, but at the same time you know what he could have done? Something like how how in rotj yoda dies by too many questions? and then yoda sits there as a force ghost and says “ha! see how now it feels you do hoo hoo hoo hoo” and then scampers off into the force aether like a gremlin. that’s what they should have done.i mean i guess it’s easy to backseat editing room now, but pretty much anything feels better.
The lore was terrible. Anakin Skywalker is the biggest Mary Sue of all time. Lucas thought it would be more emotional to show a child being taken away from his mother, so suddenly the Jedi go around the galaxy doing blood tests and taking children from their mothers. In the next one, he wanted a Romeo and Juliet plotline so suddenly the Jedi are celibate monks.
Because there was criticism after Episode I about Naboo being a monarchy, Lucas made it so Naboo elected 15 year old children to run their planet. That’s some great world building!
Padme went from have a successful career of running a planet (at 15 years old) to being a Senator, but decides to become a tradwife because I guess she was impressed by Anakin’s pro-fascist veiws and how he massacred a bunch of people?
The Jedi went from being knights the were guardians of peace and justice to a fucked up cult that abducts children to train them to fight in some holy war. Not too different from the First Order in the ST, because that kind of shit is what villains do.
The Prequels didn’t explain shit about what was going on, there was a Trade Federation that was blockading trade, then there was separatist group that for some reason the Republic wouldn’t just let separate. Better clone up some more slaves to send into the meatgrinder to destroy these separatists!
The Jedi and the Republic actually were evil when you think about implications of indoctrinating children to fight in holy wars and using clones that had no choice other than to be cannon fodder in whatever war they’re told to fight in. But those are things you’re just not supposed to think about because it’s a children’s movie… but with a school massacre.
The Prequels were accidentally pro-fascist movies. The Sequel Trilogy (at least the ones made by JJ Abrams) actually went into the emotional reasons why people are drawn to fascism (which is way more relevant to the audience than fictional politcal machinations) and has the main character reject it. The message that fascism is bad and should be opposed wasn’t received all that well by people that grew up thinking indoctrinating children was something the good guys do. It bothered people that there was a message that ancestry doesn’t determine who you are. It bothered people that there was a massive proliferation of super weapons in Star Wars paralleling the proliferation of nuclear weapons in our world.
The Sequel Trilogy brought up many things that are uncomfortable to think about and Prequel fans were upset by them. It was better when Star Wars was about cool clone troopers (slaves) being led into battle by the cool “sky guy” (who committed genocide) fighting the “bad guys” because they don’t like the awesome religious cult that indoctrinates children to fight in wars! That’s what Star Wars is supposed to be!
You saying, Ep. 3 is bad?
I hate it when child versions of a character have the exact same hairstyle.
It’s cinematography shorthand to help the audience understand they’re the same person without exposition.
Otherwise half the theater would be whispering to the other half, “Who was that kid they kept showing earlier?”
Remember that half of the population is below 100 IQ and producers want them to buy tickets.
Remember that half of the population is below 100 IQ
That’s not a sensible reading of a bell curve. Roughly 70% of the population should be within one standard deviation of 100 IQ, putting them roughly on par with one another
you think most people know what a standard deviation is?
Both of our statements are true. Yours focuses on the fact that most people are average ish.
If you want to fence about it though, my point is that most people are too dumb to not be force fed auch tropes.
Call me elitist if you’d like. I don’t dislike people like that. I just understand that producers need to cater to them.
most people are too dumb to not be force fed auch tropes.
It has nothing to do with intelligence. We all eat from the trough of propaganda and we all have our biases. Even (perhaps especially) those of us who think we’re above it.
Call me elitist if you’d like.
I’d call you naive. At some point, we have the information we’re given and we can only make decisions based on that much.
Garbage in, garage out, no matter how clever you are.
What a disappointing series that was.
I liked the original Star Wars when I was like 10. I was older when the 2nd one came out and that was ok-ish. I was in my teens when the teddy bear Star Wars movie came out and I thought that was the dumbest fucking shit ever.
The cycle goes: Star Wars is for kids and when they grow up they’re going to hate the Star Wars their kids are watching. I’m old enough to have seen the entire cycle with the prequels.
And btw, The best trilogy is Rogue One, Empire Strikes Back, and The Last Jedi.
I really liked the movies JJ Abrams made and enjoyed Solo well enough.
To me the biggest problem is when they take themselves too seriously. Rogue One was trying to be Saving Private Ryan. Last Jedi was trying to be Citizen Kane. They seem like half-assed versions of better movies with the toys I played with as a kid in the mix so that prevents me from taking them seriously.
JJ Abrams made some fun movies that had some interesting things going on in the subtext. Which are the only ones besides the OT that did that.
The difference between the prequels and the sequels is that while a bit cheesy and having some cringe/dogshit dialogue in places the prequels have a solid storyline an arc.
The sequels are just shit with only the Last Jedi trying to do anything, then when they made episode 9 they tried to backpedal and made a completely unwatchable piece of shit that makes no sense
What did Last Jedi actually do?
I always feel like I saw a different movie than everyone else, both the people that liked it and the people that disliked it. What I saw was the plotlines of both ESB and ROTJ thrown into a blender, with the entire point of those plotlines removed. There was absolutely nothing in that movie that was original. It was the most misogynistic movie in all of Star Wars, Rey doesn’t actually do anything, so I don’t know why the incels hate it. I felt like Disney gave in to those idiots and relegated Rey to a support role in that movie.
Sure they probably tried to cram in too much action adventure into RoS to compensate for the fact that TLJ had no meaningful action in it. Or do you think they backpedalled by making Rey the main character again? That was obviously the intent at the end of TFA, so it was TLJ that screwed that up by making women at best an afterthought and at worst an obstacle for the men to overcome. Most misogynistic portrayal of women in Star Wars, they had to do a big marketing campaign to convince everyone the women in the movie were strong before it was released. I guess it worked.
it was TLJ that screwed that up by making women at best an afterthought and at worst an obstacle for the men to overcome.
TLJ introduced Rose and had her go on a mission, the next one had her stay back at base and operate a radio off-screen.
Fight choreography for the prequels saves it a lot.
I also argue the world building alone makes them worth it. While the dialogue and plot had some issues, all the new worlds/aliens/the actual sith/etc. heralded in a new age for star wars.
The world in the sequel trilogy is so small in comparison to either of the other trilogys.
The dance fighting where they’re not even trying to score a hit on each other.
Revenge of the Sith has the best and most gratuitous action in the entire mainline series.
Who ever hated the original films?
More than I realized. As a kid, my favorite of the original trilogy was ROTJ. It had everything - an opening where the heroes got vengeance on a big slug, there was a dramatic-looking Death Star, speeder bikes, and force lightning.
My father told me (years later), how much some folks hated it for some of the same things. Rehashing the Death Star, Han accidentally killing Boba Fett (this hyped up bounty hunter that in the previous movie was clever and even mouthed off to Vader himself), Ewoks being cuddly teddy bears with janky traps, Leia being yet another Skywalker out of nowhere…basically, a lot of the same goofy shit people railed on George for in the prequels (myself included: since these conversations with my dad came up because I was a teenager complaining about Jar Jar, Yoda ping ponging around, etc.).
Later I saw that plenty of folks complained about ESB being moodier, the “No, I am your father” being a twist out of nowhere and dramatically undermining Obi-Wan’s character by his being dishonest. Some of the same “canon-breaking” retcons that we all complain about today.
Granted…I still love ROTJ despite its flaws, and while I never enjoyed the prequels as much as a lot of folks, I find them endearing in an odd kind of way. The Sequel Trilogy less so, but there’s a few bright spots.
Basically, I wonder what the reception of the movies would have been if we had the internet then, and especially if we had engagement-based algorithms driving things, which does such a great job of amplifying hate.
Yeah RotJ was Lucas made Star Wars into a franchise devoted to toy sales. Bringing in other writers and directors to take over was the smart move, it’s what he did for ESB and it resulted in a great movie. But because of his petty spat with the Director’s Guild, he decided to get a non-union directo for RotJ but basically directed it himself.
Then he announced the Prequel Trilogy on the day he got a good toy deal with Hasbro.
I feel like George Lucas felt like he compromised with the studios too much on the first one, didn’t think it would be a success. But it ended up being the most successful movie ever, and he didn’t understand why. So he didn’t really give a shit about it and just used it to make money, and didn’t make any real effort on the movies after the first one.
No movie ruined the themes of Star Wars as much as ESB. Every important person being a Skywalker or a Palpatine turns Luke into plot royalty, and takes away his specialness as an everyman hero.
“I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father”
It was established in the first one that Luke’s father was a powerful Jedi. I guess you didn’t pay attention.
And yeah all of those important characters like Obi Wan Skywalker, Yoda Skywalker, Han Palpatine, Finn Palpatine, Poe Skywalker, LOL.
Luke’s father in 4 wasn’t important to the plot. He wasn’t even named. If a character in a movie doesn’t get a name, they’re not important. Luke’s father had the kind of abstract importance that matters to characters but not to the audience.
“Jaws was never my scene and i don’t like star wars”
~ Freddie Mercury
Freddie was more of a Flash Gordon guy.
Damn, what a soundtrack!
Well yeah, he’ll save everyone of us!
BOOOWWWW BA BOWWW BOOWW
Flash!
Ahhh-ah-AH!
The amount of slop disney puts out and the fans peddle and push into every damn game and internet space is making me slowly dislike them too.
Star wars is inescapable and it is exhausting.
There’s quite a lot of reviews and comments from the time hating ESB (a muppet as a spiritual guide? Contrived twist!) and RotJ (too cheesy! Just an excuse to sell toys!).
I mean RotJ was an excuse to sell toys.
Yoda being a little green weirdo was meant to convey that anyone can be a Jedi. Just don’t tell TLJ fans… they think that’s something that wasn’t a thing in Star Wars before Rian Johnson came up with it from his own brilliant and creative mind.
Star Wars is a long cycle of really really really cool concepts and really really really shit execution of putting those concepts on screen. People have disliked pretty much every iteration of SW for some reason or another, and it’s usually defensible. Boils down to suspension of disbelief and ‘to each their own’
I grew up kinda between the originals and prequels, and often found the originals were paced too slow and the whole ewok thing stood out as stupid as fuck even to my 8-ish year old brain; but there was more to like than dislike, so I was fan overall.
Then the prequels come out. Jar Jar used to be what killed it for me, but then the ‘darth’ Jar Jar fan theory came out, and if you watch his character through that lens it’s not quite as bad. I’m 100% sold on that being the original intent with Jar Jar, but then they backed off after so many people fucking hated him in Ep1, and just left him alone as a bumbling idiot and nothing more.
Then the sequels came out and the writing was absolute shit. SW followed that trend for a while, kinda felt like the franchise was dead in the water, existing only as a cash grab… until Rogue One came out, and then Andor, which are both fucking masterpieces.
It used to be movies were movies and not treated like political causes. So saying something like “I though the Leia and Han scenes in the early parts of ESB were a little awkward” (my actual opinion) didn’t mean you were choosing to take a side against people that like ESB. I actually love ESB, but yeah there were some scenes are a bit awkward, and that’s fine, because it’s an action adventure move, so who cares?
So there was a distinction between criticizing parts of a movie and hating a movie. But now in the social media age, everything is either the best thing ever or the worst thing ever, and you group up with people with the same opinion as you.
Star Wars being a hugely popular thing attracts all kinds of algorithm brained people so there’s endless content about whatever thing being the best/worst thing ever about everything in Star Wars.
But in the end they’re just action adventure movies some are really good, some are terrible, and most of it is in between.
George Lucas is a genius merchandiser and fun-maker, and things like “cohesion” and “plot” are left for everyone else to figure out.
Hate might be too strong of a word but I remember how 12-year-old-me found them hard to watch because their special effects looked dated in comparison to the prequels’.
I personally find the effects from the original trilogy easier to still watch today than the effects in the prequels.
I don’t like them, even though I’ve tried to like them by watching them multiple times.
Having said that, I honestly think rouge one is a solid movie, and ironically that’s the least star wars movie from all the series.
I do, they are fucking shit
I don’t hate them, but I don’t think they are all that great tbh.
This, I’m willing to bet that the sequels will be just as beloved as the prequels suddenly were.
I already prefer them, so I can see it
My little sister hates Star Wars simply because back when she was in high school, that’s all the other kids talked about. She told me how tired she was of hearing about people shipping Kylo Ren and Rey, so much so that she plays the Sims and outright REFUSES to get the Star Wars DLC for it because she doesn’t wanna remember how toxic people were to her for not liking Star Wars.
Even though I love Star Wars (May the 4th be with you) I can weirdly relate, because when Andor dropped and my initial thoughts were “Slow, boring, and doesn’t feel like Star Wars.” and the Heist arc only CEMENTED this for me. (God I couldn’t tell you how much I wanted those characters to die, and how little I felt when they finally did, hours of build-up and the only thing I learned about them is that they don’t think Andor’s one of the cool kids, and one of them wrote a book! Now they’re all dead, don’t I feel like my investment was worth it?)… My Reddit inbox (remember before they went on a banning spree?) was flooded with people telling me how stupid I was for “Not getting it!”, and how simple people like me “Should stick to pew pew stuff like Clone Wars”
It made me want to rewatch Rogue One, not because of “Andor Hype”, but because I’d get to see the show’s namesake die. Legitimately I’d fire up Lego Star Wars and just have player 1 be Darth Maul, player 2 be Cassian Andor, and just killed Andor over and over again, that’s how mad I was getting at Andor fanboys and their constant barrages of insults to anyone with ANY criticism of the show. It legitimately got so bad that I just didn’t wanna watch Star Wars anymore.
I liked what little I saw of The Acolyte, but, sadly these Disney shows have been tainted for me by a combination of Boba Fett being THAT BAD and the toxicity of the Andor crowd.
I’m sorry Boba Fett was TERRIBLE, I just don’t understand why they went with a script where Boba Fett acts like he has no idea how Jabba’s operation worked despite being one of his right hand men. Did the writer just never see Return of the Jedi? I realize the only line of dialogue Boba Fett’s ever really said i anything ever is “He’s no good to me dead!”, but come on now. You just can’t give me a fish out of water story when the character in question is a shark in familiar oceans.
I realize that Star Wars has always been of questionable quality and has been divisive every since Empire Strikes Back had half of people going “What a great twist I was absolutely floored and on the edge of my seat since we got to Cloud City!” and the other half going “Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker are the same person? Bullshit, what’s next, Luke and Leia are twins!?!”, so much so that the real Star Wars is the friends we made along the way, but…
I’m not making friends along the way anymore, and that’s just depressing.
I feel like with Boba Fett, the script was written about Cobb Vanth, the Marshal that had Boba Fett’s armor in Mandalorian. The story would’ve made sense if it was a guy trying to protect a small town from criminals.
But a big city with only a handful of people running things? A guy trying to build a criminal empire with a “just say no to drugs” policy? That shit doesn’t make any sense at all.
I never liked Rogue One because it was trying to be too serious while being full of plotholes. Why did Tarkin blow up his own base instead of the ship he knew had the Death Star plans on board? Oh right, because the writers wrote themselves into a corner and it’s so it’s an idiot plot.
So didn’t have much interest in watching Andor, a prequel to a prequel that I thought was poorly written trash.
And yeah the Reylo’s are the dumbest people imaginable. Kylo Ren tried to force his mind into Rey’s mind (which is suggestive of things) and people fantasize about them being together. It’s just people that have the attention span of a goldfish jumping on board dumb internet trends with considering how problematic they might be. Also the Twilight/50 Shades of Grey type bullshit going on there, but Star Wars movies are supposed to be viewable by children, it’s not a place for those kinds of fantasies FFS.
I don’t really follow what other people think (can’t stand online fan communities in general), but I love Andor so much. For me, it’s like the fruit of Star Wars. I don’t think anything will ever top season 1 for me. It feels like… well I won’t go on because you’re not a fan, but I have a lot of positive things to say about the show. To the point that I think I can just stop caring about Star Wars now, because I can’t imagine it ever getting better for me.
Obviously that’s just my taste.
May the fourth be with you! Related to that, I just came back from a packed screening of Spaceballs the movie and it was actually SO FUN! I was worried that the Mel Brooks puerile humour would be too dated, but I loved it. The crowd ranging from grey hairs to little kids was cracking up. People even clapped at the end!
Anyway. Spaceball. So not a good movie, but it is fun if you like that kind of silliness.
My inner grouch is still really bothered by the fact that the prequels became retroactively beloved through meme magic.
This implies that the bar has nowhere to go but down, except that we know good Star Wars is capable of being produced. Andor is fucking phenomenal, hands down the best thing to have ever been spit out by Disney since they acquired the IP. It’s not a sure bet that time will erase the stains that the sequel trilogy have created on the Star Wars brand. The prequel trilogy may not be perfect, but it felt more like Star Wars than the sequel trilogy ever did.
I’m just amazed people think Disney’s bad considered Lucas’ plan for the series was just remaking the prequels in 3D and doing Star Wars Detours
I watched the OT as a kid… and then watched the Prequels as a few years older kid…
And I thought the prequels were inferior to the OT, and even to many OT/EU based video games that were released before or in the same timeframe as the prequels.
And then the Sequel trilogy was an utter trainwreck, along with pretty much most of the Disney+ shows.
Rogue One was decent?
Mando S1 and S2 were good (very obviously a serial spaghetti western type show, but executed well untill S3) Andor is great, everything else bad or so uninteresting I haven’t even bothered.
I hear that The Clone Wars animated series is good too.
Clone Wars is amazing. I feel like they’ve seen more screen time for me than the movies at this point. It’s an anthology series. I even enjoyed the last season even if it was mainly a setup for Bad Batch.
Rebels is good too, although very clearly for a young audience.
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I watched all 9 again recently with my kid. I am barely old enough to be in the “hate the prequels” gang. All 3 trilogies are good and bad. But after watching again 7, 8, 9 get way too much hate. They aren’t great either. The funny part is, most people hate them for the wrong reasons. Palpatine returning makes sense if you pay attention while watching 3.
There probably is a whole generation that will despise andor and rogue one.
Palatine coming back makes sense with some of the themes from 3, but it really undermines everything about the original trilogy. Essentially, thr sequels take away anything and everything Luke ever did.
Rogue One was just boring. That was my only issue with it.
I think it’s funny when people compare the sequels to the EU, when they share a lot of ideas.
I actually have to blink at the number of times people swear to me, without sarcasm or irony, that the EU would “NEVER BRING BACK PALPATINE!”
But like, it did though?
Palpatine being back is probably one of the least egregious and on the nose things for the story. Rey being a Palpatine? Several fakouts for losing characters (chewy and c3p0), and the whole of 9 being sidequests up to the flashy ending, those are choices that seem wack.
This, I don’t even know what the fuck is up with the magic dagger that tells you where a holocron is on a crashed space station that did not exist when the dagger was forged.
But there’s shit just as dumb in the prequels, such as Palpatine hiring Dooku who then hires Jango who using his assassin money hires an assassin who hires a droid who hires two bugs, ending in a chase where Jango runs into the old villain trap of “Kill the unwilling informant being coercised into talking and not the guy who actually wants to stop you?” that’s been around since Dick Tracey was writing parking tickets.
Overall, definitely, but there are many things that came from it that I can’t deny loving and which have fully joined my idea of what Star Wars is. Several specific scenes, many characters like BB8, Fin, Kylo etc. (all which have major problems, but I still like them in their own way) and other random things. I was never a SW megafan, but I like the original movies enough to care, and I won’t deny enjoying many parts of the sequel-sequel series. But if I were given the choice of deciding if they’d have never had existed I’d have chosen that.
Also bringing you hits like: “Somehow, Palpatine returned…” and “Yousa thinking yousa people ganna die?”
People’s reaction to “Somehow, Palpatine returned” is very telling.
Poe isn’t some internet wanker that’s going to endlessly debate over the causes of evil returning. Poe doesn’t need to know the reason evil returned, he just knows he has to oppose it. The exact method of evil returning is irrelevant to him. Why?
Because Poe Dameron is a fucking hero. Opposing evil is what he does. Debating irrelevant bullshit is for wankers.
Internet wankers get triggered by Poe not caring about how evil returned. Do you identify with internet wankers or do you identify with a guy that opposes evil without giving a shit about all of the wankery?
“Somehow, Palpatine returned…” is a line that makes sense in context… He doesn’t know how Sidious came back.
Though keeping the contents of the message locked to a temporary Fortnite event was stupid.
The message was irrelevant, really. The only thing that mattered is Palpatine (ie. fascism) returned and they needed to fight against it.
Don’t forget, “if you don’t play Fortnite, you’re going to miss important exposition”.
I’m going to need some help with this one…
Long story short, before rise of Skywalker there was a Fortnite event that featured emperor Palpatine sending a message to the universe that he was back. It never happened in the movies. Rise of Skywalker’s opening scrolling text talks about this message from Palpatine. It was all just a crummy afterthought.
Shit gets cut from movies all the time. No reason to be upset.
Nobody’s upset here buddy.
I’m not your buddy, friend.
I’m not your friend, pal!
This means episode 9 really is “made X from fortnite real”. It’s a 2 hour addition to a fortnite event. It makes so much sense now! crazed laughter
I would have been more forgiving if it were just a part of the Fortnite event.
Me too.
Wait, did Palpatine canonically escape the Fortnite dimension?
Like… that’s the ‘somehow he returned?’
They explain it in the movie, he force jumped between bodies.
But yeah the contents of the message they steal in the begining isn’t played anywhere except in Fortnite
Fortnite is in Star Wars. They just haven’t been to that planet yet in the show.
Can’t wait to see Rey discover the remains of an ancient battlebus.
Lol I forgot about that
I always wonder if it would have been awesome if the last Jedi ended with this instead of it popping up in Fortnite. Maybe it wouldn’t have felt like a stupid afterthought. Though clearly that’s what it was.
The entire “love story” between Anakin and Padme is barf worthy
Star Wars has never been “good”. It’s just always been entertaining. Luke is absolutely insufferable the the OT movies. He whines non-stop in ANH and Empire, and then he comes back in ROTJ as some snobby holier-than-thou prick. We just love Star Wars because it meant something to use when we were kids.
“They fly now?”
They fucking always have. I hated this specific line so much, completely separate from other reasons to dislike 9.
Force healing and Disney kiss of resurrection
💀
