OMG here we go again.
In most democracies, there are election poll watchers from the major parties, and also independent poll watchers to observe and make sure no shenanigans are going on. The Democratic and independent poll watchers would’ve reported any election irregularities. I not seeing widespread reports of such.
States run elections, even safe blue states shifted 10+ percentanage more red.
So my conclusion: The vote count itself is probably legit.
The real “rigging” was done via unlimited political spending legalized by the Citizens United ruling to unfairly buy propaganda spreading lies. That, exacerbated by inflasion, voter apathy, democratic party incompetence, voter roll purges, and most important of all: Human Stupidity. And this timeline is the result.
Think about all those people getting scammed all the time. You see those stories and be like “OMG how can they be so stupid”. Well this is the same, but with politics and elections. Talk to people and you’ll see how dumb they are. Some people genuinely think that fascist coup plotter will fix things. 🤦♂️
These elections (like the one OP is talking about) are election has lower turnout, so it probably favors democrats, since democrats are more energized to vote after the defeat last november.
There was a ton of irregularities reported btw. I forget the exact number but like 20-40 with enough evidence that they were bringing the cases forward. But when Trump came in he appointed someone to a role who dismissed them all.
I want to believe that, cause it confirms my biases, but you gotta source?
Took me a while but I found what I was thinking of.
It was the Fired FEC head
But it wasn’t because she was fired they didn’t go forward, it’s because the board is 3/3 dem/rep so a republican would need to ‘flip’
Asked by Alicia Menendez, “What is most alarming to you?” she replied, “Well, I can’t talk about anything that would be currently before the commission by law, complaints that are filed and any investigatory action remains confidential until the cases are closed.”
She then continued. “But I can tell you that in the past we have had 63 separate complaints filed against the president or his political committees –– and not all complaints are well-founded not all complaints are worth the agency’s time to pursue. But our nonpartisan professional staff has advocated that we pursue 31 of those cases and, in not a single one, did we get four votes to move forward.”
This is one of the things they talked about in the election interference hearings in December too
“Almost every matter that the FEC has not pursued is associated with the former president [Trump]” (Rep Torres, about 57minutes in)
Link to thread discussing: https://www.reddit.com/r/somethingiswrong2024/s/JUGCXE7Gab
Link to full hearing on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/live/mIDJ5whpSHQ
Certainly suspicious.
There’s a pretty strong theory that it wass rigged by the tabulator software. One of the guys in DOGE was hired because he literally wrote software that could do that exact thing - modify submitted ballots. His involvement was literally scrubbed from the Internet before people found out about it (they missed a few spots). The Election Truth Alliance did a report on Clark County, NV, showed that there was a heavy skew after around 60% of the ballots were processed that should started lumping everything towards Trump - essentially, the votes should be chaotic, and almost somewhat random, not clearly clustering at the 60% mark.
Other red flags, we had one of the largest years for voter registration, a majority for Democrats. The polling all showed that we were crushing it. His rallies were showing lower turnout, and everything pointed to his platform losing steam…and then he somehow wins every single swing state?
Yeeeaaaahhhhh…that doesn’t happen…you should be questioning the results.
is there any data on registered voter turnout in a handful of counties where it really mattered? Because that would tell you whether or not the discrepancy is due to democrats simply not voting, a well known problem within the democratic party.
Per Ballotopedia: "The average turnout in the seven presidential battleground states was 70% in 2024. This was below the 2020 average, which was 70.7%. "
One additional thing…Trump won every battleground, but somehow Democrats won pretty much every down ballot race in those states. I don’t believe for a second that someone voting Democrat down the board is going to vote Trump…a few voters will sure, but not enough to swing nearly every down ballot race…that’s absurd.
turnout compared to registration, not previous registration of the year before, compared to the previous year that turnout implies very high return rates, which are not quite what we see when looking at the data, the 2020 election had about 5 million more total turnout than the 2024 election. Likely due to the easier voting at the time of the 2020 election. Which is about a 3% change in turnout.
turnout in the battleground states being the same makes sense, i’m curious about the turnout between registered voters, and political alignment, because if i had to guess, a bunch of registered dems, didn’t vote. Which would align with the party demographics, of course the other options are, the US literally wanted trump, which was a global shift away from incumbency, you can see it in the data, or that more republicans were mobilized.
It’s not hard to account for the voter turnout, the problem is specifically why, did trump just run a more effective campaign mobilizing more people? Or did the harris campaign fail to mobilize people to actually vote, as has historically happened.
I don’t believe for a second that someone voting Democrat down the board is going to vote Trump
i mean, does this align with the incumbency though? Coming from the biden admin where he had pretty bad ratings, it’s possible a lot of the downballots were republican at the time, the us tends to flipflop like that, again, it’s historical precedent.
Also: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/ gonna stop spamming this link now, but MAN it’s infuriating that noone even considers this. They’ve been doing voter suppression for decades, how hard is it to connect the dots?
I mean I literally said this:
The real “rigging” was done via unlimited political spending legalized by the Citizens United ruling to unfairly buy propaganda spreading lies. That, exacerbated by inflasion, voter apathy, democratic party incompetence, voter roll purges, and most important of all: Human Stupidity. And this timeline is the result.
My point is, the actual vote count itself is legitimate, but the fairness of the election as a whole was definitely unfair.
All elections in the history of the US has been biased in favor of the more regressive candidate. This one is not much different.
Trump’s been talking about how he won because of Elon “being good with computers”
Investigations were launched over less
Everone is getting real jumpy around Isreal. Isreal has a booming cyber security industry and is one of the biggest exporters of security exploits that they sell to corporations and nation states.
They didn’t need to use computers. https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
Let’s be frank: it was a special election where about a tenth of eligible voters turned out.
Trump ain’t gonna see an FDR level midterms victory, unless he manages to destroy the American democracy totally, but I wouldn’t look at this as evidence of some major shift by itself.
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He didn’t “handily win” he won by 1-2 points in the swing states.
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It tracks with an anti-incumbent sentiment, people are not happy with inflation so they voted against the incumbent, they’re still not happy and still voting against the incumbent.
And he only won because a few million people who voted in 2020 sat on their asses instead of voting this time.
Sounds like First-past-the-post voting doesn’t accurately represent the people with its inherent two party system. Are you working towards giving these people representation in your state by pushing for electoral reform?
That fight is dead, the current fight is “will we ever have federal elections again”
But will you vote for (D) Nikki Haley in 2028?
It seems like supporting a genocide depresses turnout. Democratic consultants, take note.
Democrat politicians have already decided “DEI” was the problem. Good luck getting those spineless cowards something resembling a moral framwork.
Uh, are you confusing Republicans, the ones currently in power, with Democrats or something?
No, largely the “centrist” democrats that are doing this as a response to republicans embracing post truth death cultism. The progressive wing is mostly pushing back but I’ve seen at least two sniveling dems say some absolutely vile, trumpist shit.
no they are pointing out the Dems are doing literally anything to shift the blame from the party. I have seen so fucking many people argue that the dems should just drop all the trans issues and let the republicans win on it. Others blaming leftists for pointing out the problems with Harris.
The only notes they pay any attention to are Federal Reserve Notes.
“yeah because they supported genocide I didn’t primary them and instead let the guy who supports 2 genocides including the same one win”
Wow fuckin clowns
There was no mandate. In 2024, every incumbent party in every liberal democracy worldwide lost ground because of inflation concerns.
He didn’t “handily win” he won by 1-2 points in the swing states.
he won the popualar vote despite all the EVERYTHING
That tracks with the reality that half of America really likes the guy.
America is the country that had almost 70% of Republicans polling that Nixon shouldn’t resign the day before congress decided to impeach.
He won. It is unfortunate, but not unsurprising or requiring a leap of faith, and it has all evidence supporting it, factually.
Now we need to take that reality and address it and the root causes–rather than fighting facts with preferred fantasy like the right wing has done at every opportunity.
I know that Republicans spent 2020 looking for bamboo in ballots, but haven’t been able to find even hand recounts in swing states. I think Democrats are so invested in being “good losers” that there has not been enough investigation into an election where Republicans certainly cheated as much as they were able to.
Apparently doing the “every accusation is a confession” projection routine years ago with the brazen 2020 election conspiracies has completely disarmed the democrats’ ability to do anything. They have become the political version of the Washington Generals (the basketball team who’s job it is to make things interesting for the audience by losing to the Harlem Globetrotters).
It’s not half of America, it’s half of half of eligible voters, and even some of them were holding their nose to do it.
If the DNC was even remotely capable of caring about everyday people they could have easily won. They need to crawl out of the corporate pockets they’ve been living in and actually try to fix things if they don’t want to go the way of the Whigs.
Wrong. Polls of all adults, registration be damned, is nearly 1:1 with what we saw at the polls.
Here’s a yougov poll from like a week ago: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econtoplines_c1AfT3R.pdf
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He won “legitimately” by suppressing the votes he couldn’t get in swing states. I heard that if you’re black or in a metro area in a swing state that your vote was likely thrown out through some beurocratic bullshit.
Grain of salt: I did hear this on YouTube and I don’t remember the channel, it might have been humanist report or something like that. It definitely sounded legit, though.
They had four years to corrupt the election offices in specific areas and I 100% believe they could and would pursue that opportunity.
EDIT: another poster shared this, this is basically the same thing I heard. https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
I heard that if you’re black or in a metro area in a swing state that your vote was likely thrown out through some beurocratic bullshit.
the only thing i’ve seen backed up is that a bunch of republicans were challenging registration status of mostly minority identities, pretty much all of which were fraudulent, so it’s possible that this did influence it, not very significantly im guessing, im also pretty sure as a voter, that if your registration was invalid, it would be very very obvious to you. Everything i know about voting registration informs me that you must do all of this BEFORE election day, im not sure if there are any processes that allow you to retroactively do this, im guessing there are a few, but probably for select circumstances, very unlikely to be those im guessing.
Realistically, they probably gerrymandered and ran aggressive campaigning, which appears to have worked.
And what we’ll see is by next election this guy will lose his seat because Republicans and Independents are dumber than goldfish.
At this point anyone who denies Elon stole the election is just as wilfully ignorant and naive as I was when I thought Trump didn’t collude with Russia. How much blatant evidence do you need before you admit that the cheating fascists are cheating fascists? (they never will because democrats are doing literally nothing to stop Elon illegally dismantling the government) (edited to fix an autocorrect)
I mean - just by money and messaging or is there some actual data from voting that shows irregularities?
https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
4,776,706 voters were wrongly purged from voter rolls according to US Elections Assistance Commission data.
By August of 2024, for the first time since 1946, self-proclaimed “vigilante” voter-fraud hunters challenged the rights of 317,886 voters. The NAACP of Georgia estimates that by Election Day, the challenges exceeded 200,000 in Georgia alone.
No less than 2,121,000 mail-in ballots were disqualified for minor clerical errors (e.g. postage due).
At least 585,000 ballots cast in-precinct were also disqualified.
1,216,000 “provisional” ballots were rejected, not counted.
3.24 million new registrations were rejected or not entered on the rolls in time to vote.If the purges, challenges and ballot rejections were random, it wouldn’t matter. It’s anything but random. For example, an audit by the State of Washington found that a Black voter was 400% more likely than a white voter to have their mail-in ballot rejected. Rejection of Black in-person votes, according to a US Civil Rights Commission study in Florida, ran 14.3% or one in seven ballots cast.
There are also the uncountable effects of the explosive growth of voter intimidation tactics including the bomb threats that closed 31 polling stations in Atlanta on Election Day.
Holy Blueanon nonsense, Batman
Not definitive but irregular:
to be clear, there isn’t hard evidence that shows that trump colluded to win an election with the influence of russia, however it does show a LOT of overlap between the trump campaign, and russian influence in the election, all per the mueller report.
Why aren’t we talking more about all the mail in ballots that were destroyed in mailbox arson attacks or by postal workers?
Yeah, something about this shift in focus feels like a psyop. We have clear evidence of targeted voter suppression, destruction of ballots, etc. In a two party system, fraudulently removing your opponent’s votes has exactly the same impact as creating fake votes for yourself. That’s already clear evidence of fraud, why are we redefining “evidence of fraud” as a new thing that we haven’t found yet?
Also dejoy running the postal service
all 300 of them?
Those people probably knew who they were, and probably voted after the fact.
Yeah sure they’re a bunch of evil criminals, so if they had the methods to cheat they probably did.
But let’s say that tomorrow there are worldwide headlines about some irrefutable smoking gun evidence. Or maybe Musk goes on TV being a little bit too high, or Trump gives an interview while a few neurons too many wither and die in his skull, and they say they did it, tell us where to find the evidence, and say it was worth it and they did it because they are patriots trying to save the country. Just doubling down on the old “He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.”
DOES ANYTHING EVEN HAPPEN? Who is gonna do something about it?
The absolute most extreme result I could possibly see being reality would be that Trump manages to get Musk accused and convicted for the interference. That would be just as funny as it is unlikely, but it would fix nothing.
The evidence is in plain sight already: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
There absolutely is way. The dems are routinely ineffective and they lost a lot of votes from 2020 because of the whole “Harris backs Israel in a genocide” thing.
Just cause the greater evil won doesn’t mean the left needs to start peddling unfounded “stolen election” conspiracy theories. It’s completely reasonable that enough people realized they fucked up by voting for Republicans, Third Party, or abstaining and took this as an opportunity to refute the actions of the current administration.
What if there was statistical evidence of probable tampering?
Plus Trump, in his rambling, said something that heavily implies tampering with vote counting machines.
I’ve also seen evidence that the same systemic election interference, voter purges/disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, etc — the leading reason for GOP wins over the last 20 years, and were never legitimately addressed or removed — were more than enough to secure Trumps win of the EC.
I’ve seen plenty of evidence that disenfranchisement was off the charts, and it hit me personally.
In Michigan, I’ve been disabled and homebound for years and have never had issues voting by mail, but this time rather than my usual automatic mail-in ballot, I got an application for a vote-by-mail ballot after the deadline. I was still registered, but I had to go in person.
I’d have crawled through hot broken glass naked to vote, so I did it, but only because I live in a small enough town there wasn’t a queue. If I’d had to vote in the city, I could not physically have done it.
I’ll bet plenty of others like me simply could not.
What if there was statistical evidence of probable tampering?
All of the allegations listed on this site have fairly logical explanations when given context.
Republicans pushed against mail in ballots hard, so it makes sense that Harris would do better with mail ins and trump would do better with early voting. It also makes sense that trump voters mainly cared about the presidential election compared to Harris voters. It also makes sense that Harris underperformed as Democrats didn’t get to participate in a primary. Basically it makes sense for there to be abnormalities in an abnormal election, that doesn’t mean there’s “statistical evidence of probable tampering”.
Plus Trump, in his rambling, said something that [heavily implies tampering with vote counting machines
Right… But this means that we would be questioning trump’s honesty based on assuming that trump is being honest on this particular subject. He’s a troll who likes to stir the shit and make people assume he’s more competent than he really is, the same as musk.
It does not behoove progressives to question the reliability of elections without real evidence. Having people question the reliability of elections only serves conservative agenda of making it harder for people to vote.
Abnormal Clustering: In contrast to Election Day voting, Early Vote results display an unusual pattern: once approximately 250 ballots have been processed a visible shift is observed, resulting in a high degree of clustering and unusual uniformity. This is a departure from expected human voting behavior.
This is not logically explained by an “abnormal election”.
It’s also not really explaining much either. They don’t give examples of other elections to compare it too, and their own methodology is lackluster.
They are basically saying that after approx 250 votes trump started to pull ahead, which is to be expected as a lot of early Dem voters were mail ins.
To be honest it just seems like they are trying to purposely confuse normal phenomena with statistical diction, and alluding to claims without providing context.
Usually when making claims this grand you would also want evidence to match it. You’d also want to provide an example to compare it to previous elections utilizing the same methodology.
What is this website? I couldn’t find any link to their board directly, but only through a search engine. Their board is just named with three first names and there is broad statements made about them all being passionate, data analysts, bla bla.
There is no specific “CV” for them. E.g. something like “X studied computer science and worked as a data analyst for ten years”.
And the plots where they claim “suspicious” patterns looks like any aggregate. As the total number of votes go up, each machine is more likely to get towards the overall turnout, so your distribution peaks gets higher and your scatter plot scatters less. You see the same pattern with the Election day machines. Just that they only go up until 125 votes, rather than 250 or more total votes. So the spread remains stronger. Also the number of machines for early day voting is 964, whereas there was 3,116 machines for election day voting. This is another basic truth of statistics. As N goes up, the shape of your distribution gets more uniform.
So what do we see? We see exactly what is to be expected with a higher number of votes per machine. That the distribution gets narrower. And we see what is to be expected with a higher number of machines. That the distribution between machines gets more evenly.
Ignoring third party votes, this is a classical binomial distribution and you can test all of these effects easily by making your own “draw n out of N” tests.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution
The only argument is that there is a higher result for Trump with early voting as opposed to election day voting. And that can needs to be analyzed in the context of demographics and other factors. For instance people who can take off work for election day voting have more white collar jobs and are demographically more inclined to vote Democrats. But of course accounting for these factors is not part of this “analysis”.
I am not saying that manipulations are out of the question. But these people are clearly trying to bamboozle you with deliberate misinterpretations of statistics.
It’s been ran by a few different independent orgs. I believe it all began from
Then some independent data scientists got in touch with him and ElectionTruthalliance and SmartElections was borne out of it.
I haven’t verified the data in-depth, but AFAIK there are inconsistencies like this pattern only appearing on a certain brand of tabulator. I’m pretty sure you’re missing something either way or someone else would’ve as easily refuted it. There is a lot more information posted on https://old.reddit.com/r/somethingiswrong2024/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/Verify2024/
There is a recent AMA from the SmartElection founder here with some more details:
even the exact method has been uncovered.
I have read briefly into the Duty to Warn Letter. These are specific arguments with a specific call to investigation, and they actually cover what would be considered statistical anomaly.
These are very different from the “Election Truth” people. And i wouldn’t be surprised if the “Election Truth” is using this hot issue topic to scam donations out of people.
I’m not getting any red flags I think they’re just a bit disorganised. Here’s the name of someone involved
https://bsky.app/profile/electiontruth.bsky.social/post/3lhpbvqswak2d
Seems if it were a scam they wouldn’t register as a non profit in the us they’d be anon and taking crypto donations.
I know Spoonamore said he was working with a new team to verify the claims. I’m not sure which one that is though.
The duty to warn letter was debunked as junk
Debunked how?
Not sure how you could rationalise all those shown breaches.
I fucking hate when people just say “that’s bullshit” without actually showing you where to find the information to prove it.
And the whole thing about Republicans constantly projecting, they screamed about vote tampering and then shut up real quick as soon as Trump won. And the obvious fact that Trump and Republicans in general constantly cheat, lie etc. IMO it was obvious even before the election that they would tamper, cheat and do everything illegal and unacceptable in their power to win.
I would like to see the similarities between voting machines in districts overlaid with the results.
Not to mention Musk’s DOGE people publishing their vote generation scrip on Git. You tell it the outcome you want, and it’ll make ballots to match.
So I get how this could sound compelling with that framing, but note that:
- This was part of a hack project by 4 students in 2020
- The tool they built in the hack was an ML computer vision system to validate ballots, in an effort to reduce mail-in ballot rejection rates
- As a part of testing this project, they needed a way to generate a large amount of ballots which the system could then validate
- Five years later, one of the authors of this hack works for DOGE
Like, take a look at the code - it’s trivial, in large part because it was made by college students in their early academic career. Creating something of similar caliber would be extremely trivial.
That this student hack project would have been used as a part of a greater scheme of election fraud seems highly unlikely.
It’s funny because student hacks are currently being given access to the entire Treasury payment system for the federal government and have leaked classified data about our spying capabilities.
Source? I would love to see if the geniuses signed the commits with their public keys as well.
Your first link gives a Page Not Found.
Seems to load for me. DNS issue maybe?
You honestly think the party of “Every accusation is a confession” who spent 4 years screaming about election fraud didn’t commit election fraud?
No way! Next you’ll tell me the only fraud that was found is from Republican electors!
You’re not going to believe this…
It is better to go for specific leads and investigate those, rather than throw blanket conspiracies. The latter only helps Trump in abolishing democratic processes altogether.
You actually think that Trump is smart enough to pull off something like that without fucking it up?
The same Trump that almost let it slip that they rigged PA?
There’s actually quite a lot of evidence.
https://electiontruthalliance.org/
https://smartelections.substack.com/p/so-clean
The tabulators switched after 500 votes and restricted dems to 45%, the data looks artificially smoothed to hide this. The same pattern is visible on elections going back to 2014.
They also found the remote access code for Dominion machines on a public repo with the private admin password in it, there’s evidence of breaches all around the country from people associated with Trump. They got caught red handed, told us they were doing it the full time.
And that’s before we get to the voter suppression, and 10-20% of the country being in a state of algorithmically induced psychosis.
A lot is made of the ‘drop-off’, which is easily explained by the fact that Trump is a unique phenomenon. People are shocked that some Trump voters might swing towards a democrat downballot, and I can’t imagine the mindset personally, but I acknowledge it exists. Remember, they aren’t Republican voters, they are Trump voters. Further, NC has a history of voting for democrat state offices and republican federal offices.
I think if they were going full tampering, you wouldn’t see the drop-off, because they’d rig the down-ballot as well.
As to the graphs look funny, well, I think I’ll need to see more analysis from more data by a broader set of analysts. I know that statistics will say anything if you torture the numbers enough, so I’m not going to get too invested in visualizations from one source.
Scrutinizing the vote is fine, but feel like this looks more like denial than an educated analysis.
For this case specifically, again, a ‘Trump’ voter is not a republican voter, the democrat party is way more energized to vote against a would-be Trump ally than before the election. Finally, I don’t know about this race, but it’s possible that those two in particular have something in the local population making the democrat more popular. For example in NC the republican governor candidate was way specifically a problem, so there’s a much easier explanation for why he lost by an anomalous amount.
While it might seem simple to attribute the drop-off phenomenon to personal preferences for Trump or against Harris, the SMART Elections analysis shows that this pattern is far more complex and inconsistent with such an explanation. For instance, if Harris were uniquely unpopular, you’d expect her drop-off to be uniformly large across all states, but it isn’t. In Michigan, her drop-off is negligible (0.87%), while in Montana, it’s a staggering -19%, even though Montana has little connection to the pro-Gaza movement that critics say might have influenced her support. Similarly, the Republican drop-off (votes for Trump but not for down-ballot candidates) is just as significant, sometimes exceeding the margins of victory in key swing states. Down-ballot candidates refer to those running for lower-profile positions, such as governors, state legislators, or other local offices, as opposed to high-profile ones like the president. This suggests the issue isn’t simply about liking Trump or disliking Harris but instead points to a mix of unusual voter behaviors or even potential systemic issues in how votes were cast or counted. The consistent pattern of drop-off across vastly different demographics and states demands more scrutiny, not simple assumptions.
The challenge with this example is that it suggests that they bothered to rig things against Harris in Montana of all places.
They were rigging it via voter suppression and fighting it in court so they must think it relevant enough to involve themselves in anyway
I feel like the exit polls would have revealed something if it was that drastic.
They did, the early versions of the first ones anyway. They’re adjusted afterwards and weighted to match the alleged vote counts as they come out.
Exit Polls were spot on for all down ballot races, but were wildly off base with Trump.
State Edison Exit Polls (EEP) (MoE 3%) vs. Reported Results. In Swing States. EEPs show Harris wins 4 beyond MoE, Trump 0. 3 within MoE. Returns Trump wins all 7. 6 of 7 beyond MoE. But DownBallot EEPs are right and falloff counts are hard to believe.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/05/politics/how-exit-polls-work-election
Thats pretty impressive. Sad it took 10+ years for the first comprehendible mention of it. Let’s go on like this but a little faster please.
It is absolutely insane that only a couple million worldwide are on the fediverse. This information can NOT AT ALL be on single, non federated websites. Federate this stuff immediately.
Edit: correction and addition -> nice one with the algorithmic induced psychosis. I wish we could get some psychologists on this to make it actual science so its not some randos like us screaming into the void.
The problem is the down ballot. I’m having trouble believing that a whole lot of people went out there and voted for Trump for president, and Democrats everywhere else.
I understand staying home. I understand voting Republican. But lots and lots of split ballots?
A decent number of trump voters only voted for Trump. They left the downballot blank because they don’t really care about anything but Trump
A disproportionate amount…
Only in swing states…
Just enough to not trigger an automatic recount…
Part of musks “outreach” plan was reaching low propensity voters and telling them essentially “don’t worry about the ballot if you dont know who else to vote for, the most important thing is voting for Trump.”
That’s why we saw a lot of “bullet ballots.”
There were also a lot of idiots who voted for Trump and their local Democrat. AOC had this happen when talking with her constituents. She said their response was “you’re both (seemingly) authentic, Trump and you are real where everyone else in Washington are fake, greedy, lying politicians.”
There really are just a metric fuckton of idiots out there that don’t pay enough attention.
I don’t like Trump’s weird remarks about Elon knowing voting machines, but I really don’t think they rigged this election by that method.
Voters are so desperate for authenticity, they’re willing to vote for an authentic piece of shit like Trump. Fuck.
It wasn’t by a large margin - the swing states were a lot closer than people think. Its just that the shift nationally was a pretty uniform making the results in the overall electoral college look less close than each state was. Each swing state was within 1-3%, so small differences to splitting or not filling out the ballot mattered way more here leading to split results
The swing states actually moved less to the right compared to 2020 than the rest of the country in 2024. Probably because of more campaigning in those states
EDIT: Also for an example with some specific numbers, let’s look at the Wisconsin
President race
Trump - 1,697,626
Harris - 1,668,229
Third Party - 30,015
Senate
Baldwin (D) - 1,672,777 [ 4,548 fewer votes than Harris ]
Hovde (R) - 1,643,996 [ 24,233 fewer votes than Trump ]
If we assume no split ticking, that would mean ~1.4% of Trump voters and ~0.2% of Harris voters in Wisconsin likely left the down ballot blank
Yeah, sure. But we saw a gigantic increase in split ballots.
Orders of magnitude more split ballots than any other election.
Have you met anyone that did that?
I just think the dems painted themselves in a corner by arguing there is no way someone could ever rig the general. The left was not built on the foundation of, “we trust the government.”
Even the continued reluctance to implement some sort of election security reform is misfounded. Sure, voter suppression is a thing and we can’t let our fear cause us to misstep but at the same time just because you haven’t found election fraud doesn’t mean it does not exist. The point of the fraud would be to go undetected. If they aren’t caught, well damn, looks like it’s working.
How would someone even go about investigating election fraud? You can’t petition every state. No one would trust a private entity to fund it. If you even suggest that the machines are rigged the manufacturer will sue the shit out of you.
It’s just another reason the DNC is a sunk cost. These absolute positions they hold are actually gaping vulnerabilities.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but I think it’s more to do with them saying how great “the economy” is. They didn’t even try to appeal to the working class. They just told them they should be appreciative. They lost because they eschewed the left.
TBH they should have taken the dems and been appreciative, instead they’ve all signed up to get fucked over by a GOP tax plan AGAIN. Did you know 70 Million Americans relied on the Medicaid they froze funding for and are about to gut with the recent spending bill? 79,308,002 if you include CHIP too.
A Harris Tax Plan would have lowered working class taxes and gone after capital gains for the exorbitantly rich.
These are very well documented stances, everybody should have been aware of all of this. There is no excuse about the DNC’s message.
TBH they should have taken the dems and been appreciative,
The beatings continue until morals improve…
This is exactly the problem with the US oligarchy and how it filters candidates that are allowed to run for elections.
Yeah keep pretending both sides are equal while one side guts this nation like a pig. Helps you sleep at night, I bet.
They’re not equal. You’ve also acquired such a hair trigger for “enlightened centrists” that you’ve started shooting the messenger.
The most important lesson of this last election? The laymen do not give a fuck about how the government functions, or the need to preserve the institution itself for further generations. Erosion of the rule of law? Loyalty tests? Pardoning insurrectionists? Absolutely off their radar.
They care about the hurt on their wallet, and the fact that the incumbent party is telling them “everything is fine”. Do they care that tariffs will put the squeeze on them even more? No, that requires a passing understanding of basic economics.
The larger voting body operates on the status quo. That’s it. If they dislike the status quo, they need an appealing explanation of why they should expect things to change under your stewardship. Controversies used to help swing an election, but we’re so saturated with excuses for outrage that a lot of it no longer registers on the radar.
Realistically we have a party representing stagnation, and a party representing volatility.
- One party positions itself as “just left enough of center” to be stomached by its constituents, but frequently fucks it up because their policy positions can’t risk rocking the boat with its wealthiest donors.
- The other party accelerates the country toward authoritarianism under the promise of sweeping changes.
That first bullet? Pretty fucking important. You seem to want them to win because they value the rule of law. Good on you, so do I. But that party is gonna continue to get black eyes because their priority is on the status quo of the party, not the status quo of their constituents. They consistently fuck it up every time they’re given a choice between the two.
Yeah, people should be appreciative of not being gutted. They can still be fucked, but they should just happily spread the legs. Never expect more than not being fucked at least.
If you think taxing the rich and removing money from politics is getting fucked, then you deserve every misfortune.
It wasn’t just Harris’s stance on Palestine that lost her the election. It was because they ran right on nearly every policy. Honestly I think abortion was the only topic they remained aligned with their base on. Mass deportations, went right. Wealth redistribution, token jesters. Universal health care, they laughed in sick and poor people’s faces. On and on, they told their base to go pound sand or have Trump as president. Whelp here we are.
they lost a lot of votes from 2020 because of the
whole “Harris backs Israel in agenocide” thing.FTFY. It wasn’t just the genocide. It was also this kind of denialism and apologism.
Just cause the greater evil won doesn’t mean
the leftliberals needs to start peddling unfounded “stolen election” conspiracy theories.Libs are right-wing.
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Alright, imma post this one last time in this thread, I swear:
https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/.ml
It IS really weird how all the tankie types love both to tell you that your votes don’t matter and Trump bragging about rigging the election shouldn’t be investigated, isn’t it?
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Trump bragging about rigging the election
If that’s actually what he was doing, that’d be something, and also quite uncharacteristic of Trump.
🐴👟
Horseshoe speaks to the concept of authoritarianism for people that have never heard of multiple political axes. Quite frankly two isn’t enough either, so horseshoe trying to bend just one to its false narrative is pretty obnoxious.
I’m alluding to the effects of an inherently unprovable Russian psyop campaign, like a cool person!
but it does also annoy the real tankies so there’s that
Even if I consider election tampering a vague possibility, they’d never get away with it if that’s all it was. They likely aimed for a combination of factors, between misinformation, voter suppression, and/or vote tampering. Plus, people have said that public behaviors in many red states are that people are “pleased” with the result. This could be a vocal minority, but it’s hard to judge for sure.
I’m also not going to link to Greg Palast as “proof” of tampering - just that if we were under a responsible administration, there’s enough circumstantial oddities I’d want the election investigated for certainty (just as we did in 2020 even after Biden won).
They did do a variety of things.
- limited the dems to 45% on the tabulators after 500 votes
- suppressed enough votes that they would’ve lost if it weren’t for the massive voter purges and other legislation they shoved through
- algorithmically induced psychosis in 20% the population
If any one of these had failed they would’ve lost.
Plus, people have said that public behaviors in many red states are that people are “pleased” with the result.
Just this weekend I had to overhear a conversation about how terrible trans people are, and how good it was that trump is doing things about it.
Very important to keep in mind that even if evidence suggests the election was rigged that there are plenty of actors (Russia for example) that would want Trump in power to destabilize the states
Not pointing fingers and looking at this objectively is the best way for it to gain traction
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Election denialism seems to just now be a feature of American politics
I’m sorry, but this is the most egregious example of “both sides do it” that I’ve ever seen.
The republicans made denying the election a central pillar of their platform, and the lies was repeated by virtually every leader in the party. And a violent mob stormed the capitol in an attempt to overturn the vote.
Show me a fragment of that being done by the left.
You’re under a post where someone is engaged in election denialism. You go to social media, even here, you can see it.
You know, both sides doing something doesn’t mean or even imply that it’s to equal degree. It’s just that both sides in the US seem to be doing it right now.
Of course it’d be both sides. They use projection to shield themselves. So if they were going to steal an election, they’d accuse the dems of doing it first.
This isn’t conscious but they think everyone thinks like them so if they’re trying to steal the election obviously the dems are too.
You know, both sides doing something doesn’t mean or even imply that it’s to equal degree. It’s just that both sides in the US seem to be doing it right now.
On this point, you are completely wrong. When you have one party making election denialism a core of their belief system while on the other side you have a few random people making claims on social media, it is absurd to claim that “both sides … seem to be doing it right now”. The very fact of you attempting to make the argument implies that there is equivalence between the two sides.
No, both sides have not made denialism central to their party platform. No, the Democrats did not have any cabinet nominees who refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the last election. No, both sides did not storm the Capitol building in an attempt to prevent the certification of the election.
No, both sides are not doing it.
When you have one party making election denialism a core of their belief system while on the other side you have a few random people making claims on social media, it is absurd to claim that “both sides … seem to be doing it right now”.
But that’s both sides doing it. You just described people from both sides doing it…
No, both sides have not made denialism central to their party platform. No, the Democrats did not have any cabinet nominees who refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the last election. No, both sides did not storm the Capitol building in an attempt to prevent the certification of the election.
Right, and I never claimed so.
No, both sides are not doing it.
I’m sorry but they are. What you have a problem is understanding the difference (not even nuance) of “both sides are doing it” and “both sides are doing it to the same degree/same level/whatever”. It’s two very different things.
Both sides would refer to equivalent people doing it, so actual political members of the party since that’s where the Republicans set the bar, not just some random public citizens on the internet.
Both sides would refer to equivalent people doing it
No it doesn’t. Both sides are doing X can just mean literally that, both sides are doing X. You’re confusing that with “both siding”, where you are saying that with the intention to imply that they’re somehow equivalent or equal. And that’s not what I’m doing, as you can probably tell by now.
Just recognizing that it’s happening on both sides doesn’t mean or even imply you think it’s happening to the same degree.
What do you think “both siding” entails?
It is the simple reduction of two completely disproportionate responses to the phrase “both sides do it”.
The same logic keeps being applied to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Both sides are fighting, they say, so both sides share equal responsibility for the destruction and for making peace.
I believe you when you say it isn’t your intent to do so, but in that case you are doing so obliviously. You don’t even know who the commenter is, so it’s pure assumption on your part that they’re even left wing to begin with.
It should be plainly obvious everything that Republicans complain about is sheer projection.
If they are complaining about rigged elections, do you think they themselves rigged the recent elections?
So do a lot of people a lot smarter than myself.
It’s not even like this is the first time. Everyone who’s able and interested should check out the HBO documentary Hacking Democracy about the 2004 election.
It was fascinating in 2008 watching a FOX anchor arguing with their in-house analysts when they called Ohio for Obama. He was arguing that the votes would start shifting to McCain just like they did for Bush in 2004. Sure enough, the same glitch happened, but the vote ratio didn’t change.
He started getting frantic after that, sure that the votes would start going for McCain any minute. It was super obvious he knew about what actually happened in 2004.
Interestingly, “Anonymous” claimed to have blocked the hack saving the election; which is both nonsense and probably technically true at the same time.
Drag googled “Anonymous Obama election” and couldn’t find anything
Interesting times ahead for the US when both of their major sided are losing (or lost) faith in elections.
The right got dozens of days in court to share whatever evidence they claimed to have that 2020 was stolen. They couldn’t provide a single shred of evidence for voter fraud that wasn’t in their favor. Now, with plenty of evidence, if the other side requests their day in court they are called crazy and conspiracy theorists and blue maga and blue anon and any other number of ad hominem attacks. What are they afraid of, if there was no hack let them prove it in court. But republicans don’t play fair and they never have, so why are Dems playing so easily into their hands? Are they that desperate to distance themselves from what they’ve seen as crazy election deniers? That means all the ad hominem worked.
💯
Verifying the vote isn’t denialism. The evidence is compelling and coherent. Too many whiners not enough debunkers!
Like said, interesting times coming up.
…but only when Republicans lose. When Democrats lose, it’s decorum all the way down. So basically, Republicans will never admit to losing fairly ever again, because election denialism isn’t punished.
I’ve seen a lot of election denialism after the most recent Republican wins. Not equal amounts to after Republican loss, not even close, but still a noticeable amount.
Folk on the internet will say a lot of stupid shit without evidence to back it up, that’s why “a lot of people are saying” should be a statement that carries a significant amount of skepticism and doubt. I don’t see much actual denialism coming from Democratic leadership.
The infuriating, part is that I expect the Dem leadership to at least be interested enough in knowing the truth to investigate and uncover facts that could lead to credible accusations of election interference. The yokels online are gonna be mad no matter what, but did the party really expect the guy who credibly cheated in the last two elections to not cheat again? ESPECIALLY since he was specifically not punished for it despite being found guilty? I hate that the smallest hint of truth-seeking efforts gets shot down as some kind of betrayal of party morals.
Notably, though, not from anyone really in a leadership position. Where’s Biden calling a governor and asking him to help him out, just a little? Where’s the senators and party board screaming about it?
That’s true
It’s not really denialism when there’s evidence. Verify the evidence.
It’s only denialism when it’s irrational and not based on coherent arguments. (Ie. Trump in 2020)
Natural result of decades of erosion to the fourth estate.
Thanks Ronald.
“I didn’t lose!!! It’s eh the others that are cheating…”
So far it has only proven to be a feature of donald trump, and there is no evidence to the contrary.
It’s definitely a lot more widespread than just Donald Trump.
You should look at chess competitions.
ahem Magnus Carlsen accusing Hans Niemann withiut evidence ahem
Ah yes the anal beads saga
Democrats are desperately willing to cling on to anything that will allow the party to continue on business as usual.
Perhaps this is because deep down in their hearts they understand that the DNC will not change no matter the circumstances, no matter the consequences. It’s not what their donors desire.
At least the republicans are completely idiotic, what is your excuse blue conservatives?
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
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You double posted
He already admitted Musk rigged the voting machines
Link? I missed that.
Elon’s kid keeps saying stuff that sounds like it was rigged too. I don’t wanna be a conspiracy theorist but I am intrigued at how some of this lines up.
https://gizmodo.com/elon-musks-kid-keeps-saying-weird-stuff-about-trump-2000563118
So, now we’re interpreting the comments of a toddler? This is some deranged journalism. I’m sure it gets clicks, though.
No, I’m not putting weight into it, but if we wanna talk election conspiracy, go big 😂
I really hope a lot of people don’t buy into this nonsense. Many on the left are feeling powerless, and that’s fertile ground for conspiracy theories. If we see the rise of BlueAnon, I’ll have to crawl into a cave and sleep for the next 4 years.
The same day, it should be noted, that Musk did those two Nazi-style salutes right in public.
Nazi-style salute. Thanks giz.
It’s implied. I can’t find the video just yet.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-elon-musk-voting-machine-2017657
And again I want to thank Elon for what he did in Pennsylvania. He worked so hard. He worked so hard in Pennsylvania. A great guy and a man who is a champion, a man who took something from nothing. Nobody, everybody said, this is something will never work. It’s too violent. But he understood people. He said they like violence unfortunately, right? But a man who understood fighting better than any man ever. There’s never been anything like this. What Dana White did with the UFC and building it into a monster sports franchise.
That? Mmmmmm no, I don’t see it. It’s demented rambling, sure, but not seeing the yowza moment.
I don’t think that’s the right bit. He said something like ‘and Elon knows those computers so well, those tabulators, and then we won PA’
And you know, it’s only because they rigged the election that I’ll be your president representing you there.
But then they rigged the election and now we won. So I’m going to be your president for the Olympics and for the World Cup.
I think he means that during his 2016-2020 run, he told people running the bids for the Olympics and World Cup that he wouldn’t be president in 2026, because his second term was supposed to be 2020-2024. Then, since he claims the dems rigged the 2020 election, his second term is now.
People on the left need to stop peddling this “Trump stole the election” stuff. It plays right into his rhetoric about our elections being rigged and allows him to cry again whenever his side loses. The comment in the screenshot looks like a fucking bot anyway.
Dems didn’t dump Biden early enough and the average American voter is dirt fucking stupid. Plus you’re telling me there’s some sort of massive conspiracy to alter votes in 7 different states with separate election systems and no one blabbed?
While I agree that every accusation is a confession until we see some hard proof that’s peer reviewed I’m skeptical. We shouldn’t be focusing on the past anyway, it doesn’t solve our current problems. We need to focus on the present and future.
A local special election being won doesn’t mean a whole lot, either. Non-presidential elections and especially ones without Trump on the ballot inspire a very different voting group. This wasn’t a federal election, either.
So my wager is on some combination of the following:
- Really low turnout.
- Mentioned working class.
- Didn’t mention Trump.
People were unhappy with inflation and stuff and so they vote out the incumbent, it’s as simple as that. 100% the opposite party wins if things are going very badly.
I assumed this is why Musk is tweaking algorithms to show more positivity now that he is president
I assumed this is why Musk is tweaking algorithms to show more positivity now that he is president
What algorithms would he tweak to “show more positivity”? Remember, one of the Dem arguments was basically looking at macroeconomic indicators and claiming things were going well, which was wildly out of line with what people on the ground were actually experiencing.
By and large, working class folks don’t give a shit about macroeconomic indicators, they care about being able to afford what they need to live their lives and ideally being able to not spend every penny on necessities. “Inflation and stuff” as the user above put it, but as seen at checkout rather than on a spreadsheet.
Agreed. Fact is I don’t think they even needed to. The electoral college does most of it for them, and then when over half the nation doesn’t vote, and on top of that many Democrats just didn’t vote, it’s pretty obvious exactly what happened.
64% of the eligible population voted last presidential election, down from the record 66% in the previous. And Trump won the popular vote. We need reform but turnout is less of a problem than it has been historically.
People on the left
Libs are right-wing.
If he stole the election, and he did, then that needs to be drummed into the heads of the ones who actually voted for him. He doesn’t care about anyone but himself or anything except whatever he defines as winning.
If he stole the election, and he did,
What convinced you of this?
Rampant election tampering. The closing down of polling centers in neighborhoods that don’t fit his profile. The restrictions on mail-in ballots. Armed gravy seals at polling places for intimidation purposes. Interference and propaganda from Russia. He also explicitly stated he did in his speech.
Where’s the evidence?
He also explicitly stated he did in his speech.
That’s the way some people are interpreting those words, yes. However, this is not everyone’s interpretation; otherwise, it would be covered by every news source in the nation.
I also don’t consider Trump a very good source for anything, and that includes information on Trump himself. He lies constantly, he rambles, he says stuff that doesn’t make any sense. He does not seem well. This was true in 2016 and is much more true today.
Why would they care even the slightest bit? They’d be proud of it.
It’s simple: challenged votes. Watch Vigilantes INC in YouTube.
Part of why Trump wins is simply because there’s more brand recognition for him. He gets media written about him very easily and his photo gets splashed around BY BOTH SIDES!
In today’s politics there’s nothing worse than becoming “what’s his name” - “the other guy”.
In the age of the para-social relationship the big names get the votes, regardless of whether they’re liked or a reasonable choice.
Oddly enough the establishment left seem to think politics is a meritocracy. Which is idiotic and part and parcel with them being generally out of touch.
I feel strongly that the world has Mark Burnett (creator of The Apprentice) to thank for the presidencies of DJT being inflicted upon it.
Not nearly as much as the DNC.
