“I’d rather my kids be autistic than dead”
I think this is a completely valid train of thought.
Misguided for sure, but valid.
What all these people would say if they both believed their bullshit and loved their kids.
I’m curious how many people are vaccinating their children, but don’t want to have the rest of their friends and family know.
Not enough.
*than
In this case it actually matters.
Completely fair
Not exactly misguided. Also that is a quote from some old comedian. (Steven Fry?)
It also makes discussions with people believing it easier. You can avoid discussing what they believe as facts and focus on the decision they make.
I think I’d have more respect for them, not less. They seriously considered it was easier to deal with the autism than endangering their children and others with the disease. The positive side is that it’s very unlikely there will be any disease or autism.
I am not sure the other side shuns vaccination because they are afraid of autism. I am sure there are many among them who would not terminate a pregnancy even if they found out in time that their child would have down’s syndrome (I don’t condemn or condone this, just giving an example). They only don’t vaccinate because “the libs tell them to”, so more like a cult fanaticism behaviour. I think it is that simple and stupid not even something pragmatic.
You could very well be right. It definitely tracks with what I’ve personally seen. There really seems to be a lot of I’ll do what they tell me so I don’t have to think or put in any effort.
This is my impression.
It’s more about tribalism and (to rob the term) “virtue signaling” than anything.
There is a niche group really obsessed with autism link conspiracies (and I’m sympathetic to that if they have a struggling neurodivergent kid; its a thing that really dominates their life), but the vast majority of antivax is simple “my side” signaling now.
Reminds me of a bit some streamer did about a trans inclusionary radical misogynist. “I get it, if I was born a woman I’d want to be a man too! And any weak man that can’t hack it should get to be a woman! Trans rights!”
It makes me laugh everytime I see people like that. It’s just so funny to me that there are people that can get over a pretty recent prejudice, but not the one that’s thousands of years old, that is significantly less socially acceptable than the other. Actually, I think that they should have cage matches with terfs.
Tbh, it’s not that surprising to me.
Trans prejudices are, as you said, rather new and to most people rather impactless. Most people don’t have close daily contact with trans people, just because there aren’t that many, so it’s not that difficult to say “You know, I don’t really care”.
Man/woman stereotypes on the other hand are super deeply ingrained and even if you are conciously watching out for them and trying to avoid them you will inevitably fall prey to some of these. They are so ingrained that they are just subconcious.
For example, one of my kids had a birthday party. We were at some indoor playground and quite quickly the girls and boys of that group separated and each of the two groups did their own thing.
I checked in with the girls every 10 minutes or so, asking them if they are doing alright. After the third or fourth time I realized that I only did that with the girls, because apparently I subcontiously trusted the boys to manage on their own, but not the girls or something. So I stopped doing that.
Was the person shit posting to highlight the absurdity of bigotry by changing the perspective or where they genuine?
Shit posting. It was a joke.
Trans-Inclusive Radical Mysognist
That used to be my discord bio but I got tired of all the interrogations from mods making sure I wasn’t actually evil :(
Now I’m thinking of the Jello apocalypse bit where they were dubbing Sky’s of Arcadia, “The existence of trans men prove we don’t need women”.
I think that’s the stream I was thinking of, actually. Time for a rewatch!
Isn’t that trans maxing? Forgive me I’m just trying to learn.
I seriously have zero clue what “trans maxing” is supposed to be.
Imagine an incel has dysphoria and no queer theory, common sense, or touch with reality. Transmaxxing is the byproduct of that.
Straight up shit like taking hormones and dating men in order to get laid because they can’t get women
So literally the kind of stuff a lot of trans people do before they realise they are trans. Yeah of course it is very cis to dress up as a girl, have a female name in your had “just in case” and wishing to be born a girl (dont worry someone who has this experiences could never possibly become trans). That’s what peak denial looks like.
Yeah but through the incel looksmaxxing lens. And also often going way further without accepting thst they’re trans than most denial stuff does.
Maxing of tramsgengarizm
Tram?
Trammaxxing
Yes
This was from the Penn and Teller TV show called Bullshit! They said, " Assume the research paper is correct. Going by their statistics, you are far more likely to die than get autism."
And the paper turned out to be fraud.
far more likely to die than get autism."
And the paper turned out to be fraud.
So… you are actually far more likely to get autism than to die:P
The paper that claimed a link between vaccine and autism.
It’s kinda wildly offensive that these anti vaxxers would rather have a dead kid than an autistic one, they speak about autism like it’s leprosy
So, about leprosy.
Seriously, though, leprosy has a long, ugly history of being wildly misunderstood and being used to other/imprison/enslave/kill so many innocent people, so it’s an unintentionally rich comparison.
There is an entire Behind the Bastards series on people who shilled the anti-vax rhetoric.
Robert makes the point that for the anti-vax crowd, it’s the idea that “you are a bad parent and that’s why your kids got autistic” is worse than “vaccines gave your kids autism”.
It’s even worse when you add genetics to the mix because now parents have to believe something made their kids this way instead of something they had no control into.
The absolutely wild thing is that anti-vax used to be a largely liberal stance but with the added conspiracy theories, it swung over to the right.
So, TL;DR: parents are assholes who don’t want to face reality that their child is not what they wanted them to be and would rather not have the burden of raising them and blame something else.
Even worse is that research indicates autism is heavily linked to pollution, and the anti-vax right wing crowd voted the guy in that wants to remove all environmental restrictions.
Dude, I have never heard about that. WTF? I seriously wonder if all of them going after the colleges and scientists is to stifle this stuff, the shit that his cult has fallen for already.
Exposure to fine particulate air pollution (PM2.5) has been linked with significantly increased risk of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in children, particularly if exposure occurs during the third trimester of pregnancy or during early childhood, according to a meta-analysis from Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.
The study was published April 29, 2021, in Environmental Research Letters.
The authors noted that there has been a steep rise in the prevalence of childhood diagnosis of ASD over the past several years, from 6.7 per 1,000 people in 2000 to 16.8 per 1,000 people in 2014. Possible risk factors include those related to family, such as genetics or parental age, or the environment. Previous studies have found an association between exposure to ambient particulate matter (PM) and neurobehavioral dysfunction, but they’ve been inconclusive regarding the link between PM exposure and the development of ASD.
https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/air-pollution-linked-with-increased-risk-of-autism-in-children/
Wow interesting. Studies like these are important because all sides have people that minimize the science in favor of being inclusionary/exclusionary (eg. “There have always been this many undiagnosed autism cases” vs “Kids need discipline and not a diagnosis”).
I think we underestimate the extent to which modern humans have radically changed our environment. I would frankly be shocked if there wasn’t at least some minor environmental factor in everything labeled as uniquely modern atypical behavior* (extreme aggression/depression, mood disorders, gender dysphoria, non-traditional sexuality, etc…).
Unfortunately it’s often taboo to talk about our identities and personalities as being anything other than totally predetermined and core to our existence. And when it is done it’s often in an extremely dehumanizing or inconsiderate way (eg. “pray away the gay”).
*Can’t overstate that none of these attributes should be taken as inherently derogatory or negative
The absolutely wild thing is that anti-vax used to be a largely liberal stance but with the added conspiracy theories, it swung over to the right.
Kinda like how the original men’s rights movement was dads who wanted more parental rights and to see their kids, but because they chose a bad name, it became a movement for incels and misogyny and the original people were chased out
They should have called it the dad’s rights movement or the gender neutral parental rights movement
I got the impression that anti-vax was always a right-left thing, because you had hippie-dippie types who thought it was “unnatural”, but you also had fundie Christian types who thought that medicine went against God.
It used to be, that’s the crazy thing. The whole crunchy granola “I don’t want to poison my kid” started out as a leftist principle. And to a certain extent, it sort of made sense.
But Republicans fed the conspiracy theory part and it blew up like wildfire.
It is equal parts fascinating and terrifying just how much the Republican party has fed the anti-vax people.
And to a certain extent, it sort of made sense.
With such open mindedness the conspiracies can also sort of make sense to a certain extend.
What do you think doesn’t make sense at all?
Just to be clear, children amd adults should be vaccinated.
The thing is, they often don’t believe that vaccines work
Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work? Parents preferring live children to dead ones in world that constantly throws weird bullshit their way?
Okay but what if my kid turns out gay or trans or a different kind of christian than me? It’s better that they die than any of that, right?
Sadly yes. If they really believe their book, they prefer them dying without sin than living and being damned to hell. Which nicely encompasses in a single sentence most off what is wrong with religions, Christianity in particular.
Except that isn’t in the Bible. The whole “Age of Accountability” thing is a very new idea, coming up only within the last 200-ish years or so. Like a lot of other stuff that fundamentalists bang on about, whether you believe that Christianity on the whole is made up or not, that part definitely is.
Some (but not very much) of the bullshit they ramble on about is in there, but it’s not in the important part.
All of the fire and brimstone, Sodom & Gomorrah, “I am a vengeful god” shit is in the Old Testament. Sure, the Old Testament is important (it’s like half of the book, after all), but it’s important as backstory. It’s literally just the Torah in a different order, included because Christianity started as a breakaway sect of Judaism.
The part that actually pertains directly to Christianity starts with a list of “begats,” some very confused shepherds, and a barn baby getting presents. The New Testament is mostly about helping others and being tolerant; and the star of the show, Jesus, literally goes around telling people that they can get into heaven just by being nice and helping the needy. He gets angry exactly once, and goes on a table-flipping rampage because someone else was taking advantage of poor pilgrims. It’s the kind of thing that a lot of the Christian Right would call “hippie bullshit,” but it’s also the entire point of their religion.
Exactly. Amen, go in peace, all that.
Not the point of their religion. Obviously.
Just because it “isn’t in the bible” doesnt mean it isnt part of Christianity.
It kinda does, in this case. Their particular brand of it is all about fealty to the Bible; so if they aren’t upholding that basic tenet, they aren’t Christians. Ergo what they’re doing isn’t Christianity.
Today I went to church for the first time in years, and holy crap this could have been all politics on the good side. I don’t know what craziness your Christian’s call their Bible, but this branch was all about “love thy neighbor”, “tolerance”, “help the needy”, and a loooong discussion about how you can’t serve both gods and Mammon (greed/wealth).
There was no literal mention of politics, because “separation of church and state”, just good, honest Christianity that has a lot more to do with “the left” than anything I read here.
I am more or less that kind of Christian, and based on my study it’s the most accurate to the original intent. I’m glad you got a chance to experience that sort of Christianity.
That’s a very ahistorical view of what Christianity is–Christianity existed for decades (centuries?) before there even was a bible.
Before it was collected as a compendium of official parts, sure, but most of the individual books (both the ones that made it into the current version and additional ones that ended up being rejected) were around. The Old Testament ones were already written down, and most of the Gospels were at least oral tradition very early on.
I believe it was over one hundred years before the Gospels were all written down, and early Christian sects had passionate disagreement over which texts were official or hearsay, but it’s not like they were completely without religious texts.
Only partially. They had the Old Testament, which was a subset of the Jewish Bible. But more to the point, their concept of Christianity is, according to them, rooted in the Bible. But in reality, they haven’t read it.
The important part is that he understands that vaccines work. The antivax morons do not.
There’s different degrees of being wrong, and this guy is only half wrong, leading to a better outcome. We should encourage that.
Half wrong but got the entirely good outcome. Or almost.
What a good parent.
In contast: My mother would rather have me being dead that help me get through depression. Fuck “Filial Piety”, bunch of bullshit. I made typo on a tax form that they themselves don’t even know how to file and all the sudden its my fault? Bruh. “Medication is bad”, meanwhile I’m struggling with serotonin withdrawl, and yet they have the audacity to say I’m useless for an illness they inflicted on me.
Ignore them and take the pills. If you are a child, report them to the authorities instead.
Or you could be my parents, don’t vax and still get at least two autistic children anyway.
Yeah, but think about how much autisticer they could have been!
Important things to ponder
Penn and Teller had a good visual about this. https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo
Kinda scary that even though the link between vaccines and autism has been debunked so much in the past 20 years, that people still think its true. I mean, at this point theres more chance that the earth is actually flat than vaccines causing autism.
People believe the darndest things and invest a lot of time and energy to create their very own personalized alternate realities.
task failed successfully?
Is autism a disability?
Depends on how you define disability, and how “severe” case if autism someone has. If someone is incapable of taking care of themselves, that’s definitely a disability by most metrics. Having trouble and needing some support to manage everyday life? Can be counted as disability, in some instances not. Having trouble, but not needing that much support? I’ve seen this both counted and not counted as disability
Understood. The messaging is unclear sometimes, so I appreciate the insight
Its a spectrum. Its not a one size fits all thing. So it will be for some, but not for others.
