US Vice President JD Vance has called on European states to show greater independence, urging them not to be US “vassals.” He also said EU governments could have done more to oppose Washington over the Iraq War.
This seems like an attempt to undermine NATO. The only time article 5 has been used was after 9/11.
By saying Europe had a choice and should have resisted, he lays the foundation for the US to not follow through on their NATO commitments.Edit: The commenter below is right, the article 5 was used for Afghanistan, not Iraq. My whole argument is thus invalid
Article five wasn’t used in Iraq, only Afghanistan.
It’s not like that matters to the people this propaganda is targeting.
Still a really important correction imo
Which was after 9/11
Yes but Europe was under no obligation to support the US in the Iraq war since it had nothing to do with NATO.
The only time article 5 has been used was after 9/11.
I’m not sure what your point is.
Uh…
This seems like an attempt to undermine NATO. The only time article 5 has been used was after 9/11.
By saying Europe had a choice and should have resisted, he lays the foundation for the US to not follow through on their NATO commitments.
I’m saying that Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with Europe’s NATO commitments.
Thanks for clearing up the facts around this. I updated my comment above.
Yeah, we should have ended our ties to the US and our infrastructural dependency back then.
Back then was one of the few moments I was proud about a german politician, when Schröder said “No”.
Too bad he’s saying “Да” a lot now.
…what…?
Seriously: what the fuck? There was - at best - scant official support in Europe for the war, and public support was nearly nonexistent. The fuck is he on about.
Go home and fuck your loveseat, heterosectional.
A few European countries sent troops, but more importantly there was not a peep from Europe about, you know, not creating another refugee crisis in their backyard. He said oppose, not not support. Europe could’ve done more to oppose the Iraq war.
This is interesting, today we know that a conflict in the middle east will cause a large spike in refugees/migrants to the EU, back when the Iraq war started, was that not the case?
Until 2004, the EU was a western European entity, with Greece alone possible to describe as being anywhere near the Middle East, and lacking a land border with the rest of the EU.
The Iraq war did not cause and international migration crisis. People were primarily moved internally and to other (unfriendly) ME countries.
What really started the migration crisis was ISIS and the Syrian war, 10 years later. Where a Russian ally fought the byproduct of American misrule in the Middle East, and Russian allies directed migrants into Eastern European countries unready for them financially or culturally.
Quite what the EU, a non-military force that primarily overlaps with NATO, was supposed to do differently there I don’t know. Should it have predicted that the US would essentially lose to Assad, to the Taliban, and that they would then switch sides and ally with Russia while still in NATO?
What really started the migration crisis was ISIS and the Syrian war, 10 years later.
You’ll find that ISIS, in fact, grew out of the anti-American insurgency in Iraq. They actually weren’t ISIS at first; they were Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Quite what the EU, a non-military force that primarily overlaps with NATO, was supposed to do differently there I don’t know.
Divest from US weapons would’ve been one simple way to make America reconsider their crusade in Iraq.
Yes. I specifically mentioned ISIS came from American misrule in Iraq. The people aligned with ISIS were on America’s side during the Iraq war.
I can picture the pitch to an EU that has just accepted a massive long term project of trying to lift Eastern Europe out of post-Soviet destitution. OK bro, divest bro because obviously the techbros are going to turn America fascist once the boomers implode the world economy in a few years. Just do it bro. Match American military spending bro. You need it bro.
The people aligned with ISIS were on America’s side during the Iraq war.
What people? From what I’ve understood Al Qaeda in Iraq’s predecessor organization was attacking US troops basically right after the invasion.
OK bro, divest bro because obviously the techbros are going to turn America fascist once the boomers implode the world economy in a few years. Just do it bro. Match American military spending bro. You need it bro.
I didn’t say that. I said: Threaten to divest from US weapons if America invades Iraq, because it’s a morally reprehensible illegal war and because it was predictably going to create a massive refugee crisis right in Europe’s backyard.
To be honest I wasn’t even alive when the Iraq war started so I have no idea, but looking back the pieces (immigration from the Middle East to Europe being easy, ethnic and religious rivalries in Iraq getting ugly, America’s inability/unwillingness to install stable governments abroad) were all there so anyone in a relevant EU role who didn’t see it coming should be fired.
They could have idk, introduced sanctions at least. They could have stopped military cooperation and threatened to form their own alliance. It was a deeply unjustified, dare i say criminal war that needed a more forceful response than Europe was able to come up with. I have no great love for the couch fucker but he’s correct here
I remember when Republicans renamed french fries to freedom fries because France opposed the Iraq War
Living in a french-speaking country it’s hard to forget.
The reaction at the time was partly bemusement though. We don’t call them “french” anyway, because they’re from Belgium.
France opposed the Iraq war and said that the Americans were full of shit when they were claiming that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.
Of course the Republicans snowflakes did not enjoy that.
So, is he seriously telling other countries not to just blindly go along with whatever the US tells them to do, but instead to resist and stand up for themselves?
And Trump is ok with this messaging? Hmmm.
It’s online with divisive rhetoric meant to drive US isolationism
After the US is isolated, what’s next?
So now he is saying dont fall in line and please retaliate to our bs?
So he does have a humiliation kink?
deleted by creator
respectfully i hope jd vance suffers permanent 24/7 diarrhea from all orifices
but think of the couches.
lets go with constipation. Permanent. constipation.
Still from all orifices though, right? That would finally shut him up
Yes, of course.
Extreme constipation would have our beloved Couchhumper spewing shit — literally, this time. It would be such an improvement…
that sounds worse than I imagined.
I so want that for him. (sorry to couches everywhere.)
Respectfully.
With all due respect.
Constant runny eyeliner.
He’s already spewing enough shit.
He already is, especially from the mouth.
europe did and you clowns renamed french fries to freedom fries like idiots…
Did what exactly?
How is this proving Europe did a lot to stop the war?
I know some even sent soldiers and the rest, while officially not joining they certainly sent equipment, helped in logistics, etc…
They were and still are good US vasals.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_prelude_to_the_Iraq_War
“On January 29, 2003, the European Parliament passed a nonbinding resolution opposing unilateral military action against Iraq by the United States. According to the resolution, “a pre-emptive strike would not be in accordance with international law and the UN Charter and would lead to a deeper crisis involving other countries in the region””
“France, Germany and Russia were from the very outset publicly opposed to a US-led war”
“Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Greece, Austria and Liechtenstein also condemned the war. The Czech Republic, Croatia, and Slovenia were already mentioned above”
Most european governments opposed the invasion, and most people, even from the european countries that sent troops, opposed it. The invasion of Iraq significantly deteriorated the relations between the european states and america.
Sure there were protests by the people, I’m talking about the governments, and they were and are vasals.
I’m not impressed with some resolution or opposition only by words.
Where were the sanctions like they do with countries the US doesn’t like?
And how quickly they backed down when there was talk of bringing a case to the ICC.
I remember my Belgian government fully facilitating the transport of their murder weapons trough the port of Antwerp.
Even let them break the law since they refused to let our customs see what they brought in.Who fucking cares dude, we started that bullshit war and the bullied Europe into joining.
It’s straight up DARVO shit to turn around and blame them.
Anyone who is complicit is also to blame.
That can be said.
Oh, I thought you were asking about the “freedom fries” nonsense.
I think that was a US WWII joke
Nope. When France didn’t join the invasion of Iraq, “Freedom Fries” was a thing.
It was truly stupid.
The rabid nationalism of the early 2000s feels like a fuckin fever dream.
Feels more like deja vu in a nightmare.
They’re still at it with their “Gulf of America” nonsense
No, it was another international embarrassment of American stupidity.
No
His brain is freedom fried.
Oh yeah, that time the USA kept lying about weapons of mass destruction found there and Washington not liking being called out by almost everyone.
“I don’t know why you keep going on about our current lies, you assholes should have kept called us out for our past lies. But only now, not back then when we were lying with those lies. What I mean is… ok: see we lied in the past, but you definitely were jerks for not believing those then. Now; I know we renamed French fries to freedom fries in a frothing defense of our “good lies” back then, and I know back then we insisted it was the truth, but now they were bad lies and HAVE YOU EVEN THANKED ME YET FOR TALKING TO YOU ABOUT THIS!?”
Why didn’t you stop me from hurting those people? This is all your fault!
Fucking eyelined moron
“It hurt me to harm those people”
Shady Vance is now being told to do revisionist history. I’m excited to hear what he’s told to say next.
Easily the most underrated moment of the election was when the sofa-king Shady Vance said that the US has the “cleanest energy economy in the world.” On stage! On television!
That’s not even revisionist, it’s just straight double think. Decades of holding the nation back in an outdated dirty energy economy, from Reagan ripping solar panels off the white house roof to Trump ripping EV chargers out of federal parking lots.
Decades of fighting any and all clean energy initiatives and they just… pretend it never happened. Gaslit the country into thinking that we already accomplished all of the progress that they personally prevented. The progress that we still desperately need to this day.
It’s just called lying.
“Look what you made me do!” - Every domestic abuser ever
… the Iraq War that the US started? What the fuck is he talking about?
After victim-blaming comes bystander-blaming.
When they lost a 20 year long war in the wrong country they invaded. Bunch of clowns.
They are trying to paint all previous administrations as bad.
Vance saying Europe should’ve done more to stop his nation from going to war has a high levels of rapist blaming victim for their acts energy.
I was young back then so my memory of the details as i’ve experienced them are somewhat blurred, but there definitely was opposition. And that was met with statements along the lines of “if you’re not with us you’re against us/part of the problem”.
For a while a disturbing number of places in America were calling French fries “freedom fries” because France didn’t want to invade Afghanistan with us. From my recollection, most of Europe was against it and the UK was the biggest backer of the invasion. I was in high school at the time so I could be wrong.
Close. French fries were renamed because France refused to join the Iraq war, stating they looked at the intelligence and didn’t see evidence of WMDs. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said that this was “Old Europe” talking and that the Eastern European countries were more willing to join the war.
We had a lot of anti war protests here in the UK, not that it made any difference.
There were mass demonstrations in the UK against the second Iraq war. Tony Blair’s credibility as Prime Minister was completely destroyed by his slimy toadying to GW Bush.
I remember the US and UK being the only ones that really wanted the war and others being opposed or undecided. Isn’t that when the name ‘french frys’ became a political thing?
The freedom fries, yes. I was living in Dubai at the time but it was a buzz all over the internet back then.
My god… saying ‘i read this on the internet’ and ‘abuzz all over the internet’ when talking about 22 and 23 years ago is making me feel old. I need my meds…
