Scientists have been raising the alarm since the late 70s. It’s been 50 years.
Don’t shame people for how long it took them. Be grateful for the insight they now show. Shaming them online makes it scarier for people to change their world view
I think it is mainly the fact that we have been shouting this from the rooftops for years, and all we got was ridicule.
And now, suddenly, when they realise they are also fucked, we are expected to be the bigger person.
These are the same people who always had a “what about…” ready. The same people who never wanted to sacrifice anything or make hard choices. No, they needed the bigger car, the cheap flights, the endless convenience, and they laughed while others tried to go net zero.
“It is pointless anyway, because big industry are the real polluters,” they said, as if that excused doing absolutely nothing.
I do not fear what is coming for me. I fear what is coming for my children because of years of selfish, egocentric people refusing to think about what they were doing to everything around them.
So yes, I understand the point about not making it scarier for people to change their worldview. But I am not going to pretend it does not matter how much damage was done while they mocked the people who saw it coming.
But you didn’t “only get ridicule”. It’s accepted fact in wide swathes of population. You don’t even know (I don’t think?) that this person was any kind of skeptic, they’ve just adjusted how important they think it is.
I think you’re doing exactly the wrong thing here: you’re taking the worst example of anti-climate-science people and projecting it onto this example you have a single sympathetic post from.
“It’s accepted fact in wide swathes of the population” who still mostly didn’t do anything to change their behavior in response. What’s the difference between a climate change denier who refuses to reduce driving and a climate change acknowledger who refuses to reduce driving? Practically speaking, not much!
I am in the same position as OP. This summer has made me fear global warming even more than before.
That doesn’t mean I’ve done nothing. Don’t project onto other people, some people actually do make sacrifices.
I, for example, do my daily commute on public transport. Which takes me 40 minutes each way. While I could easily drive to work, which would be 15 minutes instead. That’s 50 minutes I lose every working day. I also work from home as much as my boss lets me. Of course, that’s not really a sacrifice, but there’s actually people that go to the office when they could easily WfH.
I also avoid using the elevator as much as I can. Less than 3 floors means I’m taking the stairs every time. For a year or 2 I had to go up to the 8th floor once per week. Not once did I take the elevator.
I avoid LLMs as much as humanly possible. And I actively try to convince as much people I can that LLMs are a huge waste of resources.
I wear my clothes until they’re actually broken. If they no longer fit me, I store them, in case they fit me in the future. I own 2 pairs of shoes. One of daily use, the other in case the main ones break or are otherwise temporarily unusable (drying or whatever). It’s not a money issue, I could easily buy new clothes.
I use my electronics until they break or become otherwise unusable. Until ~3 years ago my second monitor was a 4:3 screen with less than 720p resolution. ~3 years ago that screen stopped working.
When I do buy new electronics, the EU energy rating is one of the most important features I consider.
I don’t order food delivery. I just walk to the restaurant and bring the food home myself. Either walking or on non-electric bike.
Before buying online, I first search for a physical local shop that would sell the item.
There’s plenty of things you can do as a normal citizen that can help slow global warming.
I do many of the things you do, other than public transport becuase we have none, but still, it almost feels you are wasting your time/life for people who dont care. You take public transport, 10 people drive a ford f teen thousand getting 7 mpg to carry 1 human 5 miles.
Unless you enjoy being martyr I guess. Ive kind of come to the conclusion that we are fucked, so I will live life as I want, don’t have kids to suffer the future, and thats that. Sure I can be somewhat responsible but I’m not going to quit traveling or using AC on the basis of saving the planet. Its just not worth it. I’m not saying purposely be wasteful, but I have 1 limited life, I’m not going to restrict myself for the sake of a million dumbasses who couldn’t care less.
Thus becoming one more of the million dumbasses.
That exact mentality is what got us here.
You don’t want to put in the effort? Cool, you do you. I don’t care. I’m not following you though, the stairs are way healthier as a bonus.
I’m not saying give up entirely (i also take the stairs, why not, keeps you healthy), but I’m saying its not worth being a martyr, going into a cave and yelling at clouds that everyone else is wrong for having a car and AC.
I won’t be buying a new vehicle ever, I won’t be using amazon to purchase stuff i can easily get used, I won’t be using llms etc. But will I give up meat completely and never travel? No, sorry.
I’m also not going to convince my neighbor with 5 kids , a camper, a boat, and a mcmansion (theyre also bankrupt) that theyre destroying the planet. They dont care and won’t change.
Ok, that’s not what they said though. Having said thait… how do you know what actions they did or did not take in this case?
Do you think it is more productive to criticise someone who took insufficient action and who is now taking more action, or to praise them/react positively/keep quiet?
I disagree with the implication that unilateral sacrifices are going to make any significant difference. Reduce driving sure, but we need large scale systemic change, not a handful of exhausted altruists.
This guy is pretty explicitl that he believed in it, he just didnt feel it yet. It was an abstract, far-off issue in his mind until it was palpable, which I don’t think is unreasonable, thats kinda just how our brains work
And when you see fuck all done by the people sitting in office, being guided by the smartest professors in the country, you’re naturally going to think media is mostly just selling fear as they always do - Because if it was that dangerous, surely we’d do more large scale changes
Yeah a big part of it is just a refusal to change the ways we are accustomed to. I myself am guilty as much as anyone. I buy used for many things (no amazon or Walmart use), I drive small cars, dont litter etc, dont use herbicide or pesticide etc. Normal stuff. But the fact is I occasionally eat meat and use AC like everyone else. Only difference is theres no kids to perpetuate the destruction and the suffering, so maybe I’m ahead there.
I think anyone who thinks it will get better is just delusional. It will not change, and there is only suffering ahead for the younger generation, sorry.
That’s not insight, it’s still the same selfishness as before: “This is bad for meeeeee!”
There’s levels to it. They have clearly recognised that they need to adjust their behaviour.
Nothing in the image suggests that. And we’re talking about someone who opens with “I believe it’s happening, but I haven’t noticed it.”
The kicker is that it’s not individual consumers that need to change anyway. It’s large corporations and governments. If there’s any individual behavior that needs changing, it should involve armed resistance.
Yeah. You’re only supposed to shame them in your head.
I am not seeing any shaming here.
Only now is it clicking
sounds like disbelief
it’s hard to see from someone else’s perspective, and it can be confounding to try
“only now clicking” is not inherently an insult, but I suppose it could be implied, but without more context I can’t be sure
Yep it sure can be 🙄
That’ll bring back everyone dying of heat stroke. Dumb asses need to know they’re dumb asses.
We’ve known this was a potential issue since the 60’s. The 1860’s.
As of the 90’s, scientists were saying that increased CO2 presence in the atmosphere could lead to global warming. The 1890’s.
Yeah… Gets pretty old pretty quick hearing my older relatives scepticism around climate change while our seasons get visibly more extreme year over year.
Heatwaves of >30C were literally unheard in my area when I was younger, yet now they occur multiple times in a single summer.
And same with the cold snaps in the winter. It was rare when I was younger, and now it also happens multiple times a winter.
Its like people see all this and yet still can’t put two and two together that maybe this is the climate change scientists have been crazily screaming into the apathetic void about for the last half a century.
And worse still, some will say “its natural for the climate to change over time”. Which is true… OVER CENTURIES of geological time!! These extreme climate changes over the matter of a couple of decades are not the same as the natural shifts in climate over time!
My well-educated dad used to deny climate change as late as maybe 10 years ago. Recently he always goes real quiet whenever the topic comes up, and doesn’t raise it himself anymore. I wish it would feel good as a late win.
Same here. I used to talk politics with my family, but over the past two years it’s slowly brought up less and less and they’re not nearly as enthusiastic as they were before. It’s hard to feel good about that when everything is objectively worse.
A relative of mine lives in the north. He was so excited for winter, he was gonna finally compete in a dog sled race (well, assist another competitor, which he knew was a gateway for him). He had this whole roadtrip planned to Idaho for it and based his entire winter around making it happen.
Now, if you don’t follow the weather in Idaho (I know I didn’t), you might not know they canceled several dog sled races this year due to lack of snow. All across the country apparently a bunch got cancelled.
Guy is still repping his Maga pride, even after pointing out Trump’s coal fetish is directly responsible for his winter being ruined, it doesn’t click.
A 30C heatwave happened once per century before the year 2000. There was one in 1976 and they talked about that one for decades. Then after 2000 it became normal and now we just had one in spring.
Of course many folks jump up you just have to adapt to the changing weather. Yes, we’re adapting. Events get canceled because of heat or thunder storms. Schools and public instances are holding out their hands for more tax money for cooling. Turns out, that was not the adapting they had in mind.
In the 80s while growing up, 30°C in Vienna, Austria was a real heatwave.
We’ve hit 40°C before summer even officially started this year.
If I hear a boomer tell me about how now they’re taking this all seriously, and scared?
I’m going to laugh in their face and tell them the truth, which is that they are in fact probably going to die horribly.
Oh and also, its their fault, personally.
… ideally, all while eating an avocado, whole.
It is what it is.
Scientists and experts have tried for 50+ years to warn about it but now it is what it is.
The Greenhouse Gas Effect should have been enough. Altering the reflective properties of the atmosphere and increasing the energy budget of the planet surely must be a terrible idea.
But do we know that it is a terrible idea?
They looked back in time to show that historically more CO2 means increased temperature and changes in the climate system that we may not want.
They looked forward in time to simulate how our emissions will lead to a hotter climate and how it might change in ways we might not want.
They even took all these models that admittedly vary and depend on initial conditions and assumptions and they combined them all so that we aren’t sensitive to only one kind of model and method.
Still, people think we cannot know such things.
It is what it is. But one thing I do know for sure is that we have lost the excuse to go back and question things. We can’t say “If only we were warned”. “If someone really knew, why didn’t they say anything?” “Why weren’t they more persuasive?” This has been screeched about for most of our lives. Every single person on the planet knows about it. Any skepticism and doubt has been explicitly against the advice of those who know. We chose not to listen.
It is what it is, but I will spend what little money I have and what little democratic say I have to move us into a world with less emmisions. It may be too late, but I’d like to be able to sleep at night.
I bet you there will be a lot of people saying they haven’t been warned properly. They could not have known it would be THAT bad.
most people are experimental physicists. they need to see the outcome to believe it. merely predicting it is not enough.
I have no hope, that the system will change in time for us or those who come after us; humans and other walks of life. But I still do things and make choices, that mitigate my impact on the planet. Not because I think I can steer us away from this path, but because it is the right thing to do. I am morally obligated to do it even if the result does not change and I take a weak solace in that fact. And of course it always matters whether we hit 3, 4, 5 or 8 degrees above pre-industrial mean to other evolutions of life.
I still think about Bernie Sanders’ debate with Hillary where they were asked the top threat to America. His response wasn’t terrorism or drugs or crime. It was Global Warming.
He pointed out that global warming was causing a lot of worldwide problems related to resource scarcity. I found it interesting and wonder how much worse it has gotten since 2016.
Him becoming a US president would have been something
It saddens me that we were robbed of this man’s presidency, but I do think he made such an impact that we’re already seeing his model copied at various levels. Mahmdani being the biggest recent win.
It saddens me that no one tried to make a third party with Sanders at the helm with the momentum he got in 2014/15, it should had been possible to snatch like a third of the democratic party members
Once they’d unveil actual social democratic policies, some Republican representatives would swap over. As such policies are widely favoured by the American public and has been for a few decades - Nobody is however offering them
2016 would still had been Trump, but 2020 could had been Sanders (or ideally a younger energetic 40 year old) and social democratic reforms
I think a 3rd party would have just cemented republican control of everything. Bernie knew that. It’s better to try to take over the Democratic Party with his idea. He was playing the long game. I still have hope though.
I understand MAGA managed to take over the Republican party, but you need funding. Big oligarchical levels of funding to be able to take over a primary party - It was the highway or no way
So fucking selfish man…
Do you people not even consider that billionaires got to buy another yacht? Or another island? You dirty communists just want to stop these billionaires from owning a 65th yacht just so you can what? Not sweat to death? … fucking selfish people…
I think this kind of replay only works in favor of turning off any productive conversations
While I understand the importance of having productive conversations I was just making a dumb joke hoping to make someone laugh at a shitty situation. I wasn’t really looking to have a conversation about whether we should keep kicking the can down the road.
Good comedy is used to make humour out of real-world problems. That’s what a comedian should be doing.
Illustrating the problem in such a way causes laughter and joy, but it also plants a seed of thoughts into a person’s mind.
The phrase, “it’s funny because it’s true”, yeah, say an auditorium of 1,000+ thought that, a good portion of those people are now going to be thinking about that point for a very long time.
It’s not this guy’s responsibility to foster productive conversations around Global Warming.
In a very real sense I’d say this sort of thing belongs in Leopards Ate My Face.
There are a lot of these people who are all of a sudden “Oh, this was not just doomsaying on the part of some radical scientists, this is a real thing.” Now that they’re actually experiencing the consequences of the last 40 years of complete and total inaction, they are expressing their regret. And, I’m sorry but you all voted for this. You all actively decided to ignore the problem because it was not affecting you at the time. And you didn’t really think it would ever actually affect you. And now that it is, you’re sad about it. And a lot of these people were even mocking people like Greta Thunberg for her anger at the complete indifference to the global climate crisis we were headed towards. And, to that and them, I say fuck you! We all tried to warn you and you simply ignored us. And now we are all in the same sinking boat together. And for my money, you deserve any and all hardships that you experience due to this climate crisis.
Gore won his election and the supreme court took it away from us. You can’t blame the voters completely, at least in the USA.
And then you all shrugged and said, “this is fine”
Agree, welcome to the fucking conversation pal, too bad you had to be bitch slapped across the face before you realized it was heading right for you all this time.
I personally have been prepping, bought property in areas that will fare better, hopefully, trying to be more independent with food and focusing on community. Looking into solar to get off grid. And the biggest, not having kids because I didn’t want to doom anyone to this purposefully. The signs were all there, some of us paid attention.
But also I would be overjoyed to see people go this far in their understanding of the issue. Covid really made me lose faith in the ability of people to understand and accept the reality around them.
Voting will never fix this. Americans elected the green climate change president in 2000. The establishment ruled the oil-cia failson got the job.
And a lot of these people were even mocking people like Greta Thunberg for her anger at the complete indifference to the global climate crisis we were headed towards
These are the types of people who will never admit that this was wrong. Even if they eventually admit that climate change is real, they will never apologize for that behavior.
One of the frustrating things is people acting like they were engaging this discussion in good faith decades ago. They’ve gotten away with being extraordinarily selfish for most of their lives, and now turn around and go oops.
This had already been explained to them and they refused to listen when the whole world depended on it.
Is this guy better than someone still denying it now? Sure, whatever. We’re still allowed to be mad at them for the damage they’ve done, like a vandal who suddenly stops and apologizes.
The petrol psyops really did a number on humanity
vandalism is based tho, graffiti is the highest form of art
“Only now is it clicking???” They literally said they believed in it! This thread is a perfect example of why so much of the fediverse is fucking insufferable. This is not a climate change denier, you fucking morons. So determined to find enemies absolutely everywhere that when someone says something as innocuous as “several years ago I hadn’t noticed the physical changes yet,” hundreds of people are upvoting unproductive, misdirected, snide mockery.
You fucking moron, so determined to find enemies absolutely everywhere. Unlike me.
I thought I was going insane reading through these comments until yours, hard agree. People here legit just want to direct their anger at anyone saying anything.
Yeah, I have no sympathy. If you can’t handle me flaming you for being a sleepwalking dipshit then you haven’t fucking learned anything, you’re just jumping on the zeitgeist because you’re a fucking parrot.
I’ve had nightmares about climate change since I was about 10 years old. I’m 32 now. I have been watching everyone around me sleepwalk into this as if nothing matters, now I’m expected to feel bad for this fucking monkey because they’ve suddenly woken up?
No, fuck that and fuck them — this type of person is the reason fascism is winning around the world.
Well, I maybe have good news for this person… AMOC collapse is an anticipated effect of global warming and it would paradoxically make it much, much colder in Ireland. As in “Ice Age” colder.
When?
That’s the trillion-Euro question, and the answer so far is “between 15 years and never,” but some researchers have said they are seeing early signs of the current weakening. It’s a controversial topic in climate research, but it’s one of lose “low probability, high impact” events that can’t be safely ignored.
I’m convinced it’s “when, not if” given our collective inaction
Two days before the day after tmrw.
The problem with climate change models:
Climate science is science. It works on what’s tested confirmed and very known. It is a method for being very sure and understanding pretty deeply before you speak confidently, and revising that confidence when necessary.
What’s going on is unprecedented total destructing of an unfathomably complicated planetary scale systems from physics its difficult to model. We barely predict accurate weather a week out with computers, and that was before we scrapped all the sensors (defunded NOAA) and tasked all the super computers to making bespoke CSAM.
So there’s a lot of things we don’t think to include in the model, a lot of interactions we didn’t even know were happening or how they would fuck up, and a lot of runaway feedback loops we didn’t gave data to model. And a scientist with integrity can only add what they know is there. They can’t add an allowance for ‘shit we didn’t think of, and we never think of everything’ even though they reliably do not think of everything, because we’re constantly surprised by things we couldn’t model or didn’t think of previously. The amount of co2 released when permafrost thaws was not included in older models, and if it had been we couldn’t have known how much there would be before it started.
So the models, even the pessimistic models, will never be as grim as reality. They can’t be. They’re based on what we already know for sure, and ‘we are looking at a flock of black swans’ is not something one can model with scientific integrity. The disaster is moving too fast, with over a century’s momentum.
This is an immediate existential threat, and if you do not exercise all violence your conscience permits against the people most responsible concluding every billionaire, extraction exec, congressman, right wing politician (jimbob down the street who rolls coal and works on an oil rig doesn’t move the needle. Fuck him, but he won’t move the needle. dont take his murder from the kids he’s raping) you’re not trying to survive.
Jfc,all those acronyms,i though csam was some kind of weather related phenomenon…
We live in the anthropocene, and live in society whose purpose is, near as I can tell; the abuse of children.
So in a way it is.
Take a scientist’s estimate and watch as a select few in power with no self-preservation instinct divide that number in half.
It does not conclude it would make it much, much colder. It concludes the collapse would reduce the addition of heat from AMOC to the area but does not seem to include heat addition from anything else, like global warming itself. AMOC collapse may just offset heating from elsewhere. It is not confidently known what will happen. But we’ll likely get to find out first hand.
That’s pretty pedantic. If AMOC stops supplying heat, of course Western Europe will get colder. We don’t know exactly by how much or what other effects are in play by then, but it stands to reason Western Europe will get much colder than if they still had AMOC
It doesn’t stand to reason, the climate is too complex to make such assumptions. The only thing you know is AMOC won’t add heat, but that will change all kind of climate conditions as temperature impact climate significantly, so it isn’t confidently known what exactly will happen, overall.
Would the area AMOC pumps heats from also get hotter? Given their hot water won’t be pulled to a colder location, get cooled and come back down.
I assume it’s a double whammy
Live in the waste heat from a nuclear power plant?
A friend of mine went to Ireland one summer about 20ish years ago. Never once did it get above 20 degrees and it rained most days. Someone I know in Mexico grew up in a town where the architecture is designed around rain. The buildings downtown all have roofs overhanging the sidewalks because it used to rain most days, so they designed things to shelter pedestrians. The place also had an airport, but it was unusable most of the time because it was too foggy / rainy. These days it only rains occasionally and can be mid-30s for several months of the year.
There are a lot of places where people used to need heating in the winter, but the summers were brief but pleasant. Now, in a lot of places the winters are still brutal, but now summer days get so hot that air conditioning is also a necessity.
But, what worries me most is farming. Farmers need predictable seasons. If they know the summer will be warmer and dryer they can sometimes switch to different crops. That doesn’t work if there’s unpredictable weeks-long rain when it’s time to harvest.
Humanity is resilient, and humans will survive. But, being a living human in 2226 might be awful. Enjoying the outdoors might just not be something people can’t do anymore. All the natural ecosystems of the world might have collapsed, and people just eat nacho-flavoured protein paste and dream about what it was like to eat a raspberry.
This graph should be the easiest to understand explanation anybody needs.
South Park mirrors this. Since its a show which acts as social commentary and pokes fun at current events, they did Al Gore dirty and made fun of him for supposedly believing in imaginary climate change (man bear pig). 10 years later, they made episodes saying he was right.
There is also a futurama episode about global warming.
FWIW Al gore was particularly full of shit. Totally motivated by his own profits. He basically freaked people out and then offered them a way to keep doing what they were doing and just pay him to absolve them of guilt. Essentially the pope of climate change.
Carbon offsets are a scam and humanity is the victim.
The solution was never going to involve “keep doing what you’re doing”.
Absolutely, though South Park never touched on that. They never said pay me and manbearpig will go away or something of that nature. The message was clear: climate change is imaginary.
