• givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    There needs to be regulations on the size of personal vehicles for a shit ton of reasons…

    But this one by itself should be enough.

    • SuiXi3D@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      There are… but there are loopholes. Which is why the vehicles get bigger every year. They’re all using loopholes to continue not bothering to meet the standards the regulations set forth.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Loopholes are always going to happen…

        But if you close them, then the problem is fixed.

        Currently we just ignore them, instead of passing regulations that close the loophole and clarify

        We could even go a step further and require plans to be approved by a regulatory agency before mass production can start.

        Boom, problem solved forever.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          11 months ago

          Even better would be if the US switched from “letter of the law” to “spirit of the law” because as it stands, there’s a lot of lawmakers just throwing their hands in the air and saying “well they’re not breaking the letter of the law, so there’s nothing we can do” while completely ignoring that it’s clear that the person in question is breaking the spirit of the law when it was written.

          It allows for laws to be endlessly re-interpreted, and at this point even the Supreme Court has tossed out the idea of previous decisions actually mattering. They’ll just re-interpret every law to be beneficial to their purposes every time they need to re-interpret it.

          At a certain point you have to stop and admit the loopholes are being left open on purpose.

          • Xhieron@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            If you think law has too much room for interpretation when we care about it says, what makes you think anything would improve if we instead cared only about what it meant to say?

            The spirit of the law is important in American jurisprudence, but there’s a reason that no serious legal academic advocates for abandoning black-letter interpretation: a cornerstone of jurisprudence is predictability. In order to be justly bound by the law, a reasonable person must be able to understand its borders. This gives rise to principles in US law concerning vagueness (vague laws are void ab initio) and due process. We can’t always ascertain what the “spirit of the law” is, should be, or was intended to be, but we can always ascertain what the law is. Even in common law and case law, standards must be articulated, and the state must give effect to what is actually said, and not what it wishes had been said. Abandoning this principle in order to “close loopholes” is just inviting bad actors who currently exploit oversights to instead wield unbridled power against ordinary people who could never have even anticipated the danger.

            That loopholes are left open deliberately is not a failure of legal interpretation. It’s a direct consequence of corruption and regulatory capture. Rewriting American jurisprudence won’t solve those problems. Hanging oil magnates and cheaply purchased bureaucrats will.

            • TherouxSonfeir@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              The law meant that it’s not a crime if you’re of a certain race, gender, economic status, or sexual orientation.

          • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            I mean, the “spirit of the law” itself is extremely vague and allows for even more interpretation than the letter of the law.

            You can easily fix the letter of the law by just changing what it says. You can’t fix when the Supreme Court decides that the spirit of the law is contrary to the letter, which they have done repeatedly.

            In other words, you’re arguing that we shouldn’t care what the law says, and instead should govern on what we feel the law means.

          • You999@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            Following the spirit of the law would be extremely dangerous as one’s interpretation of the spirit of the law maybe comply differently from another. There’s also the issue of being punished for following what is written in the law only to be unjustly punished for something that’s not written anywhere in the law. How are you supposed to trust the law if you cannot rely upon that law to be accurate? The real issue is lawmakers not covering all of every edge case either that be out of ignorance or malice and allowing those loopholes to exist in the first place.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        11 months ago

        “loophole” implies that regulators are trying to restrict them, but manufacturers are finding ways to work around those restrictions. There is no “loophole” here: CAFE standards are specifically driving manufacturers to produce larger cars.

        CAFE standards gradually tighten emissions standards. The problem is that they tighten the standards on smaller cars faster than on larger cars. CAFE are making it harder and harder to make small, compliant vehicles, and easier to produce larger compliant vehicles.

        This isn’t a loophole. This is incompetent, counter-productive regulation.

    • SonnyVabitch@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      There needs to be a social cost of owning these abominations. If we make it more expensive or more regulated, they’ll still find the people who want to drive them. If we make them embarrassing, shameful, or otherwise costly in social standing, the market for them will soon collapse.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Other countries require a special license for vehicles that big.

        It costs more, and requires frequent tests, written and driving. The large vehicles are also prohibited from driving down small side streets and using normal parking spaces.

        Because at this size, they’re only needed as commercial vehicles.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        11 months ago

        If the only reason people have them is for social status, you’d have a point. But, that fails as soon as anyone actually uses one for their intended purpose.

        • SonnyVabitch@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          What’s the intended purpose of the higher hood? Cars exist that are safer for pedestrians, we should stigmatise those who choose not to opt for them.

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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            11 months ago

            Effective crumple zones, larger engine, higher engine increasing ground clearance necessary for longer vehicles. Driver and passenger safety: lower hoods throw deer, elk, and moose into the passenger compartment.

            How often are pedestrians involved in collisions? How often are they seriously injured? How often are driver and passenger involved in collisions, and seriously injured? Because there is always at least one occupant present and there is rarely a pedestrian involved, occupant safety is a far more important consideration than pedestrian safety. We can justify removing sharp, penetrating contours from the front of the vehicle, but we can’t justify anything that increases risks to occupants.

            I haul 6 customers, 3 crew members, and a 5000lb trailer with a Suburban on up to 9 trips a week. Ideally, I’d have a 4th crew member to help out, but I already have to throw one of the crewmembers in the back, in a jump seat behind the 3rd row, because a suburban only seats 8.

            No amount of social stigma against SUVs is going to convince me to go with something smaller.

    • Wodge@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I live in Basel, Switzerland, lovely old city, very unfriendly to cars, which is fine due to the great public transit. There is this one dickhead who has a bright, shiny red Dodge Ram. It’s monstrous. And it doesn’t fuckin’ fit in the streets, I’d love to see how much in fines that idiot has had for blocking trams, traffic, and all the other nonsense I’ve seen it do, was actually stuck in traffic once because it got stuck on a corner, took 30 mins to get it backed up and out of the way.

    • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      The conservative Supreme Court is about to make that a lot harder in a few days. Get ready for the Canonaro to be real.

        • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          The Dobbs case of this session is Loper Bright Enterprises, Inc. v. Raimondo, and it’s looking like the court is going to side with the conservatives.

          https://www.npr.org/2024/01/17/1224939610/supreme-court-chevron-doctrine

          Right now Congress gives regulatory agencies general guidelines, and the agencies work out the finer details. Soon it will likely be left to Congress and the courts to iron out those finer details. And both of those bodies are slow, and courts are fragmented across states.

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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            11 months ago

            There will still be a degree of deference, it just won’t be absolute like Chevron requires. Agencies will still be presumed valid, but that assumption will become rebuttable.

            Everyone likes to point at the EPA with respect to Chevron deference. We need to look at the FCC under Ajit Pai. Chevron deference should not have protected the FCC when they decided to suspend Net Neutrality in 2017.

            We should also be able to challenge NHTSA’s CAFE standards, which are driving manufacturers to make larger cars because it’s harder to make small cars compliant than larger. But, because of Chevron deference, we can’t: the agency knows best.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          11 months ago

          It’s actually a few different cases, but they all hinge on whether the Executive branch has a legal standing to create Federal agencies that can create and execute regulation.

          There’s a good chance we could soon be in a USA where experts don’t have a voice, and the courts suddenly are in charge of the regulatory state.

  • pHr34kY@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Road taxes should increase after certain dimensions and weights. Bonnet/hood height should be one.

    Also, safety ratings should give equal weighting to the a vehicle’s impact absorbtion and impact contribution. It’s insane that something is considered safe solely because the occupant is protected.

  • doublejay1999@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    , I felt physically threatened just standing next to some of the products

    Yes, that’s why they make them like that.

  • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    No shit? I forget where I saw the comparison but the length of the view that is blocked when being in a big ass truck is absolutely insane. There could be a gaggle of kids in front of you and you would never know until you hit them.

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        11 months ago

        I mentioned this is another comment, but the crazy thing is that’s the driver’s view from M1 Abrams. Typically, in hatches open operation you’d either have a Crew Commander (and/or gunner) standing with their torso out of the turret for better visibility (and a second set of eyes), or a ground guide watching where you go.

      • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        That’d be the one.

        On another note, I think your comment is causing the Boost app to crash. :/

    • pageflight@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Was seriously considering a pickup as my next car until my partner pointed me to similar research a while back.

    • oatscoop@midwest.social
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      11 months ago

      They also seriously injure the people they do hit.

      A car tends to hit low and send people onto the hood. A truck hits high (head and torso injuries) and knocks people to the ground where they get run over.

    • BlanketsWithSmallpox@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      There could be a gaggle of kids in front of you and you would never know until you hit them.

      Republicans: As long as they’re not white…

    • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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      11 months ago

      Modern trucks have shitty visibility all the way around. I borrow my dad’s Colorado and my boss’s F-150 frequently and I always feel like I’m driving a school bus and feel like I can’t see shit. They have backup cameras but it’s not that great(and the idea that a backup camera should be required to operate a vehicle safely in the first place is abhorrent to me anyway). I never had any issues with my S10 back in the day and I could fit more shit in the bed.

      • lad@programming.dev
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        11 months ago

        There’s another extreme, when a friend of mine took me for a ride in a two-seat convertible BMW X2 it felt like I was barely above ground. When one of the SUVs was near us at a traffic light it felt like it was going to run over us without even noticing

        • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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          11 months ago

          it felt like it was going to run over us without even noticing

          Yeah that’s because they have shitty visibility. Also the reason I’ll never ride a motorcycle in traffic.

  • MiDaBa@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    A truck has to have a nose that looks like a big slab of concrete to oncoming traffic. If it doesn’t men will be forced to wear dresses, sing show tunes while sitting to pee. Thems the rules.

    • TrueStoryBob@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I sit to pee because I’m lazy. The dresses I wear while belting out ballads from Skykid shows are just to assert my dominance in the workplace.

  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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    11 months ago

    It is honestly a major failure of US society (comedians I am looking at you) that people aren’t made fun of for driving these trucks so mercilessly that most people feel too ashamed to drive them.

    I mean lots of other failures too, it shouldn’t be legal especially because there is zero reason for the high hood height from a vehicle function perspective. Unless of course you consider your vehicle being more efficient at killing pedestrians a reason to have them that way. I suppose we have entered that stage of things here in the US haven’t we.

    • Mr_Blott@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Definitely. Builders and contractors in Europe drive vans; same as everyone else on the planet except the insecure yanks. If you pulled up to a site in one of these in any other country, I fuckin guarantee remarks will be made about your penis size and your penchant for the cock

      • tal@lemmy.today
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        11 months ago

        I fuckin guarantee remarks will be made about your penis size and your penchant for the cock

        Every country on the planet other than the US will call someone gay for driving a large truck?

      • frezik@midwest.social
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        11 months ago

        There are plenty of things vans aren’t suitable for–towing fifth wheels or holding oversized power equipment, for instance. Nor are vans any better for visibility than the trucks on OP’s list. Many start as the same truck frames and then have a different body placed on top.

        • Mr_Blott@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          So you’re saying that contractors in other countries can’t do the same stuff that US contractors do, because they don’t have access to tiny-penis trucks?

          Because that’s what you’re saying

          • WordBox@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            I am now genuinely curious as to the logistics at play for construction companies across the pond.

          • frezik@midwest.social
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            11 months ago

            I’m saying they do have those trucks. You may not see them as much because these use cases tend to have them driven to a job site and then stay there until the work is done, which may be weeks or months.

            There are also some farming needs that Europe just doesn’t have. You can go for miles and still be on the same farm in the US. Sometimes, the land is rented and isn’t contiguously connected. Hauling equipment and livestock across all that is the job of a fifth wheel, and you can’t use a van for that.

            • Mr_Blott@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Literally every livestock farmer owns one of these

              You’re just trying to justify your tiny-penis truck when there is zero justification for it whatsoever

              • frezik@midwest.social
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                11 months ago

                I don’t own a truck. I do know people who do and have some familiarity with farm operations.

                That truck is not adaquate for the number of livestock or equipment an American farmer has. It would force multiple trips over dirt roads. Again, American farms are just plain bigger, and there might be a few changes that are needed to support that.

                Also, I’m not sure why you think that truck is better than any American truck. It simply swaps a bed for a box. Edit: I believe that’s a somewhat older model Man TGL, which has a GVWR of 7.5-12 tons. That puts it in the same ballpark as an F350, so again, I don’t know why you think this is an improvement.

                • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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                  11 months ago

                  Also, I’m not sure why you think that truck is better than any American truck. It simply swaps a bed for a box.

                  Look at where the window of that cab is positioned. Is there anything in front of it blocking its view? It’s the same difference between an American and European semi-truck. The engine is under or behind the cab, so the view out of the front is unobstructed.

                  As for farming needs, US farmers used much smaller trucks for decades. These massive trucks are actually worse for many/most hauling needs. Consider how much extra effort it takes to load cargo into the bed when it’s 5’ up, rather than when it’s only 2’ or so off the ground. It’s just plain worse, except for making someone feel tough for some reason.

          • frezik@midwest.social
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            11 months ago

            Depends on the model. Ford Transits are probably better, but an E250 is just an F250 with a different body, and isn’t any better.

    • some_designer_dude@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      This is a legitimate desire, I think. Being able to see more of what’s ahead is really luxurious and makes the whole driving experience feel safer (for drivers, anyway.) That said, now that every car on the street is a damned SUV, you’d need a damned semi truck to gain any real visibility advantage. Driving a “normal” car is like being the only dwarf in the NBA.

      • tb_@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        And sitting higher doesn’t necessitate a ridiculously high hood; look at any van ever.

        !okay there are probably exceptions but you get my point!<

      • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Sitting up higher only makes you feel safer. A taller car (especially a hatchback on stilts like most crossovers are) makes you more likely to roll over, and less able to make defensive maneuvers.

      • tal@lemmy.today
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        11 months ago

        That said, now that every car on the street is a damned SUV, you’d need a damned semi truck to gain any real visibility advantage.

        Get one of those Google Street View cars with the 360 degree cameras on a pole and wear VR goggles or something.

      • wieson@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        The seats keep creeping up higher but so do the windows. And the windows are farther and farther away from the driver. If we continue the current trend, soon there will be no more than slits on eye level.

        If you remember older cars like Mr Beans Mini, the windows went down to the elbows and were right up to the driver. Of course that’s less comfortable, but I prefer the all around view of older cars to the “elevated position” with firing holes for windows.

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          11 months ago

          The windows-down-to-elbows cars were rolling coffins, safety-wise. I think once self-driving is ubiquitous, car designs can be completely reimagined.

          I’d love a periscope, personally. Larry David was on to something, but it’s not exactly “cool”…

  • jaschen@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    My 5 year old son loves Monster Trucks. We walked past one of these behemoth in stock form and he thought it was a monster truck. He wasn’t far off.

    • Grass@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      I just biked home and cars were in the bike lane for 90% of it. The plows pulled all the reflectors off the road and now drivers can’t tell where the lanes are. Even though that entire lane is the dedicated right turn lane, they go in the bike lane. When we had snow a few days ago, pedestrians were in the road because the snow was plowed into the bike lane and sidewalk. Fuck 99.9% of US and Canadian infrastructure

    • Misconduct@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      The main downtown area where I live, that’s supposed to be walkable, just has sidewalks vanish halfway down some streets so you end up walking in the street for a few blocks. It’s so bad lol

    • GiddyGap@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      In the US that is. In many other western countries, pedestrian infrastructure is awesome and advanced. On the other hand, they usually also don’t have many of these trucks. Double whammy for US pedestrians.

  • n0m4n@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Trucks like this are like having a huge gut, where you haven’t seen your …uhhh feet for years.

  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    It’s ok though, in about 30 years after 2 million children are dead, we’ll make a law that limits the height of hoods, effective 5 years from then.

    • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      We’ll also add exclusions for cars above a certain wheel well distance, which will only further incentivize carmakers to make bigger cars.

      /s but not really, because this is literally how emissions regulations work. Emissions regulations are less strict as wheel well distance increases, so larger cars can be less efficient. Which is why car makers have heavily pushed for larger cars via marketing, astroturfing, etc, because it means regulatory compliance is easier.

    • Sagifurius@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      yeah. you really can’t, the cab over semi isn’t coming back. They were cold in winter, too hot in summer, uncomfortable and killed the drivers in a moose hit. Sure anything you hit with a semi dies anyways, but doesn’t so often take the driver too with a conventional.

  • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    We got rid of pop-up headlights because they were causing pedestrian deaths, but I don’t think we’ll do anything about these monstrosities because not only are they deadly, they’re not fun. And our regulators want to prevent fun more than they want to prevent death.

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        11 months ago

        The United Nations Economic Commission for Europe’s 1998 Global Technical Regulation Number 9 deals with pedestrian safety sets out how countries should test the pedestrian safety of vehicle exteriors. The U.K.'s Individual Vehicle Approval framework, which is based on the aforementioned Global Technical Regulation, limits the size and presence of sharp edges on any surface where a pedestrian or cyclist is likely to impact in the event of a collision. According to the U.K. regulation, protrusions greater than 5 mm (0.195 inches) must have a radius of at least 2.5 mm (0.098 inches), and further rules prohibit protrusions on which pedestrians could get caught in the event on an impact. These and other regional E.U. laws made it prohibitively difficult to engineer pop-up headlights into a vehicle.

        They weren’t killing people, I don’t think, but they were unnecessarily sharp protrusions. They can still be used, but you have to make them roundish and smooth, which is tougher to accomplish with a flush-with-hood-look. It’s more that to meet EU regulations, they would look uglier.

        I think the bigger issue isn’t death but simply that you can get caught on them, instead of rolling over the vehicle, which causes less harm.

    • frezik@midwest.social
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      11 months ago

      Not quite right. They became common due to a combination of aerodynamics and lamp height restrictions. Especially in the US, which used to require one of a small list of sealed beam designs which weren’t at all aerodynamic. They are still technically legal, but difficult to integrate with protrusion restrictions. The US also dropped the sealed beam restriction decades ago, so there wad no point in trying.

    • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I thought we ditched popup headlights because having a piece of critical illumination on a moveable body panel was a bad idea?