The reassuring thing is that AI actually makes sense in a washing machine. Generative AI doesn’t, but that’s not what they use. AI includes learning models of different sorts. Rolling the drum a few times to get a feel for weight, and using a light sensor to check water clarity after the first time water is added lets it go “that’s a decent amount of not super dirty clothes, so I need to add more water, a little less soap, and a longer spin cycle”.
They’re definitely jumping on the marketing train, but problems like that do fall under AI.
Well that’s sort of my point. It’s an algorithm, or set of techniques for making one, that’s been around since the 50s. Being around for a long time doesn’t make it not part of the field of AI.
The field of AI has a long history of the fruits of their research being called “not AI” as soon as it finds practical applications.
The system is taking measurements of its problem area. It’s then altering its behavior to produce a more optimal result given those measurements. That’s what intelligence is. It’s far from the most clever intelligence, and it doesn’t engage in reason or have the ability to learn.
In the last iteration of the AI marketing cycle companies explicitly stopped calling things AI even when it was. Much like how in the next 5-10 years or so we won’t label anything from this generation “AI”, even if something is explicitly using the techniques in a manner that makes sense.
No, problems like “how dirty is this water” do not fall under AI. It’s a pretty simple variable of the type software has been dealing with since forever.
Wouldn’t you know, AI has also been algorithmically based and around since the 1950s?
AI as a field isn’t just neural networks and GPUs invented in the last decade. It includes a lot of stuff we now consider pretty commonplace.
Using some simple variables to measure a few continuous values to make decisions about soap quantity, water to dispense, and the number of rinse cycles is pretty much a text book example of classical AI. Environmental perception and changing actions to maximize the quality of its task outcome.
Respectfully, there’s no universe in which any type of AI could possibly benefit a load of laundry in any way. I genuinely pity anyone who falls for such a ridiculous and obvious scam
I would say that when the intelligent washing machine has access to sensors (weight, hardness of water, types of laundry detergents) and actuators (releasing the right amount of detergents, water, spin to the barrel) it could make an optimal washing of laundry.
Good for you. You might also be interested in this tool called a “washtub” that lets you do everything exactly how you want, without needing to trust a computer to interpret the positions of fancy dials and figure out how much to agitate your socks.
No, it couldn’t. That’s pure tech bro logic without any basis whatsoever in reality.
The machines already have these sensors. There’s simply nothing for “intelligence” to contribute to the process. It’s not enough for you to point to the presence of various sensors and claim it could do something with them when in reality this is already a solved problem. Additionally, the hypothetical AI-equipped machine itself will also be worse, using significantly more energy and being less reliable.
I say hypothetical, because the specific LG machine we’re talking about doesn’t even actually have any AI component. Yes I am aware of the difference between generative and analytical models; it has neither. Just normal sensors and algorithms that all modern washing machines have had for years. They threw the “AI” language on it to market it to people. You know, like a scam. Because the delightful thing about “AI” is you don’t need to provide any benefit to your marks, their imagination will do the work for you
I love it when people angrily declare that something AI researchers figured out in the 60s can’t be AI because it involves algorithms.
Using an algorithm to take a set of continuous input variables and map them to a set of continuous output variables in a way that maximizes result quality is an AI algorithm, even if it’s using a precomputed lookup table.
AI has been a field since the 1950s. Not every technique for measuring the environment and acting on it needs to be some advanced deep learning model for it to be a product of AI research.
Do you have an example of an AI system being deployed to do these things or is it, as I said, pure hypothetical tech bro logic?
But yeah it basically squirts some water in at the top, then analyzes the water that reaches the bottom (and how much) to infer the fabric types. That same information is then considered when dispensing detergent and fabric softener. Simple sensors and tables
You can’t see a benefit to a washing machine that can wash clothes without you needing to figure out how much soap to add or how many rinse cycles it needs?
I genuinely pity anyone so influenced by marketing that they can’t look at what a feature actually does before deciding they hate it.
Those features are literally unrelated to AI, just so you know. It’s comparing sensor outputs to a table. Like all modern laundry machines. The inclusion of “AI” on the label is purely to take advantage of people like you who instantly believe whatever they’re told, even of it’s as outlandish as “your laundry has been optimized” lol
Yeah, I know how it works, and I also know how different types of AI work.
It’s a field from the 50s concerned with making systems that perceive their environment and change how they execute their tasks based on those perceptions to maximize the fulfillment of their task.
Yes, all modern laundry machines utilize AI techniques involving interpolation of sensor readings into a lookup table to pick wash parameters more intelligently.
You’ve let sci-fi notions of what AI is get you mad at a marketing department for realizing that we’re back to being able to label AI stuff correctly.
The fact that you’ve been reduced to blabbering about such mundane things in the style of “the ghosts in pac-man technically had AI” tells us everything we need to know here. Have fun arguing with me in the shower about whether or not current trends are just a result of marketing executives finally being liberated to appropriately label the AI they’ve been using for 70 years
My parents got a new washer and dryer and they are wifi enabled. Why tf do they need to be wifi enabled? It won’t move the laundry from the washer to the dryer, so it’s not like you can set the laundry and then go about your errands and come home to dry clothes ready to be folded
Honestly I find this feature of my washer/dryer super-useful because it reminds me to turn the stuff over instead of forgetting and letting it sit in the washer getting midlewy
Like others mentioned this one actually makes sense. Letting you know your washing is done so you can move it to the drier and letting you know its dry already so you can fold it is actually super helpful. I studied at an uni that had a connected laundry room so I didnt have to go all the way there to check if the machine was done with my laundry.
A notification that your load is done is actually convenient. It’s typically also paired with some sensors that can let you know if you need more detergent or to run a cleaning cycle on the washer.
Mine also lets you set the wash parameters via the app if you want, which is helpful for people who benefit from the accessibility features of the phone. Difficult to adjust the font size or contrast on a washing machine, or hear it’s chime if you have hearing problems.
Ah yes, please fire up the washing machine at 3am and scare the fuck out of everybody. And then let the clothes sit in there wet so that when you wake up, they smell like mildew
Fair enough. You’d be surprised how many people don’t know you need clean them occasionally and think it’s normal for stuff to go terribly wrong really quickly. :)
I got a new washer relatively recently and it’s quiet enough that it’s not really audible from the next room unless you tell it to do a really aggressive spin cycle with a big load.
In any case, I think the point of the timed wash features are to make it so your laundry finishes Right when you get home rather than overnight.
I mean, they have Alexa connected refrigerators with a camera inside the fridge that sees what you put in it and how much, to either let you know when you’re running low on something or ask to put in an order for more of that item before you run out, or tell you if something in there is about to spoil, or if the fridge needs cleaned, so I imagine a washer would do something similar?
Was shopping for a laundry machine for my parents and LG, I shit you not, has an AI laundry machine now. I just can’t even
The reassuring thing is that AI actually makes sense in a washing machine. Generative AI doesn’t, but that’s not what they use. AI includes learning models of different sorts. Rolling the drum a few times to get a feel for weight, and using a light sensor to check water clarity after the first time water is added lets it go “that’s a decent amount of not super dirty clothes, so I need to add more water, a little less soap, and a longer spin cycle”.
They’re definitely jumping on the marketing train, but problems like that do fall under AI.
The thing is, we’ve had that sort of capability for a long time now, we called them algorithms. Rebranding it as ai is pure marketing bullshit
Well that’s sort of my point. It’s an algorithm, or set of techniques for making one, that’s been around since the 50s. Being around for a long time doesn’t make it not part of the field of AI.
The field of AI has a long history of the fruits of their research being called “not AI” as soon as it finds practical applications.
The system is taking measurements of its problem area. It’s then altering its behavior to produce a more optimal result given those measurements. That’s what intelligence is. It’s far from the most clever intelligence, and it doesn’t engage in reason or have the ability to learn.
In the last iteration of the AI marketing cycle companies explicitly stopped calling things AI even when it was. Much like how in the next 5-10 years or so we won’t label anything from this generation “AI”, even if something is explicitly using the techniques in a manner that makes sense.
No, problems like “how dirty is this water” do not fall under AI. It’s a pretty simple variable of the type software has been dealing with since forever.
Wouldn’t you know, AI has also been algorithmically based and around since the 1950s?
AI as a field isn’t just neural networks and GPUs invented in the last decade. It includes a lot of stuff we now consider pretty commonplace.
Using some simple variables to measure a few continuous values to make decisions about soap quantity, water to dispense, and the number of rinse cycles is pretty much a text book example of classical AI. Environmental perception and changing actions to maximize the quality of its task outcome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect
Respectfully, there’s no universe in which any type of AI could possibly benefit a load of laundry in any way. I genuinely pity anyone who falls for such a ridiculous and obvious scam
I would say that when the intelligent washing machine has access to sensors (weight, hardness of water, types of laundry detergents) and actuators (releasing the right amount of detergents, water, spin to the barrel) it could make an optimal washing of laundry.
I would counter that non-optimal washing by doing what I ask via primitive buttons and dials is perfectly acceptable, and actually preferable
That’s a different argument entirely from “no possible benefit”, though
Good for you. You might also be interested in this tool called a “washtub” that lets you do everything exactly how you want, without needing to trust a computer to interpret the positions of fancy dials and figure out how much to agitate your socks.
No, it couldn’t. That’s pure tech bro logic without any basis whatsoever in reality.
The machines already have these sensors. There’s simply nothing for “intelligence” to contribute to the process. It’s not enough for you to point to the presence of various sensors and claim it could do something with them when in reality this is already a solved problem. Additionally, the hypothetical AI-equipped machine itself will also be worse, using significantly more energy and being less reliable.
I say hypothetical, because the specific LG machine we’re talking about doesn’t even actually have any AI component. Yes I am aware of the difference between generative and analytical models; it has neither. Just normal sensors and algorithms that all modern washing machines have had for years. They threw the “AI” language on it to market it to people. You know, like a scam. Because the delightful thing about “AI” is you don’t need to provide any benefit to your marks, their imagination will do the work for you
I love it when people angrily declare that something AI researchers figured out in the 60s can’t be AI because it involves algorithms.
Using an algorithm to take a set of continuous input variables and map them to a set of continuous output variables in a way that maximizes result quality is an AI algorithm, even if it’s using a precomputed lookup table.
AI has been a field since the 1950s. Not every technique for measuring the environment and acting on it needs to be some advanced deep learning model for it to be a product of AI research.
Then they may as well say they did it “with computers.”
Oh, but that’s not sexy, is it.
I mean, no, it isn’t. It is a marketing decision after all.
That doesn’t mean that type of thing isn’t the product of AI research.
so that specific LG machine can detect the water hardness, what fabrics are used in the clothes it should launder, what detergents are available?
Do you have an example of an AI system being deployed to do these things or is it, as I said, pure hypothetical tech bro logic?
But yeah it basically squirts some water in at the top, then analyzes the water that reaches the bottom (and how much) to infer the fabric types. That same information is then considered when dispensing detergent and fabric softener. Simple sensors and tables
that’s pretty cool then.
Yeah it doesn’t seem like a bad washer, just don’t appreciate them jumping on the AI bandwagon. It’s manipulative
You can’t see a benefit to a washing machine that can wash clothes without you needing to figure out how much soap to add or how many rinse cycles it needs?
I genuinely pity anyone so influenced by marketing that they can’t look at what a feature actually does before deciding they hate it.
Those features are literally unrelated to AI, just so you know. It’s comparing sensor outputs to a table. Like all modern laundry machines. The inclusion of “AI” on the label is purely to take advantage of people like you who instantly believe whatever they’re told, even of it’s as outlandish as “your laundry has been optimized” lol
Yeah, I know how it works, and I also know how different types of AI work.
It’s a field from the 50s concerned with making systems that perceive their environment and change how they execute their tasks based on those perceptions to maximize the fulfillment of their task.
Yes, all modern laundry machines utilize AI techniques involving interpolation of sensor readings into a lookup table to pick wash parameters more intelligently.
You’ve let sci-fi notions of what AI is get you mad at a marketing department for realizing that we’re back to being able to label AI stuff correctly.
The fact that you’ve been reduced to blabbering about such mundane things in the style of “the ghosts in pac-man technically had AI” tells us everything we need to know here. Have fun arguing with me in the shower about whether or not current trends are just a result of marketing executives finally being liberated to appropriately label the AI they’ve been using for 70 years
Cool story bro. Keep being angry about the meaning of words I guess, if it makes you happy.
Thanks for the kind words, have fun “leveraging machine learning techniques” to “figure out” how much detergent you need
I love these technical discussions. Just kicking each other in the nuts over and over.
It’s probably just a sticker they put over the word “smart”
My parents got a new washer and dryer and they are wifi enabled. Why tf do they need to be wifi enabled? It won’t move the laundry from the washer to the dryer, so it’s not like you can set the laundry and then go about your errands and come home to dry clothes ready to be folded
Honestly I find this feature of my washer/dryer super-useful because it reminds me to turn the stuff over instead of forgetting and letting it sit in the washer getting midlewy
Like others mentioned this one actually makes sense. Letting you know your washing is done so you can move it to the drier and letting you know its dry already so you can fold it is actually super helpful. I studied at an uni that had a connected laundry room so I didnt have to go all the way there to check if the machine was done with my laundry.
It already sings a song for 30 seconds when the load is done. I understand a notification at a laundromat, but what good is that really in your home?
Some people have their laundry machines far away, some people wear headphones while waiting, there are many reasons a notification helps
A notification that your load is done is actually convenient. It’s typically also paired with some sensors that can let you know if you need more detergent or to run a cleaning cycle on the washer.
Mine also lets you set the wash parameters via the app if you want, which is helpful for people who benefit from the accessibility features of the phone. Difficult to adjust the font size or contrast on a washing machine, or hear it’s chime if you have hearing problems.
Actually this one is sensible.
In the near future as more renewable energy is included in power grids the price of power will fluctuate depending on the weather.
The WiFi connection will allow you to configure your washing to be done when pricing reaches whatever point.
Ah yes, please fire up the washing machine at 3am and scare the fuck out of everybody. And then let the clothes sit in there wet so that when you wake up, they smell like mildew
Everything else aside, you need to clean your washing machine. Cloths shouldn’t be smelling like mildew after less than a day in it.
Modern washing machines are also pretty quiet.
A bit of exaggeration to make a point. :)
Not when they’re a room away from the master bedroom. Having it start up in the middle of the night would be either annoying, terrifying, or both.
Fair enough. You’d be surprised how many people don’t know you need clean them occasionally and think it’s normal for stuff to go terribly wrong really quickly. :)
I got a new washer relatively recently and it’s quiet enough that it’s not really audible from the next room unless you tell it to do a really aggressive spin cycle with a big load.
In any case, I think the point of the timed wash features are to make it so your laundry finishes Right when you get home rather than overnight.
I mean, they have Alexa connected refrigerators with a camera inside the fridge that sees what you put in it and how much, to either let you know when you’re running low on something or ask to put in an order for more of that item before you run out, or tell you if something in there is about to spoil, or if the fridge needs cleaned, so I imagine a washer would do something similar?