I’m very curious to hear your thoughts on this topic. What can we do to fix this? If you’ve already tried something what were your results? What worked and what do you think could be done better?
My thoughts on this are that we keep electing politicians who support billionaires and elite instead of ordinary people like you and me. In addition people are loosing a sense of community and are isolated at home. I think these two things can be fixed simultaneously by getting out and talking about class and corrupt politicians in person and having mutual support networks.
These corrupt politicians typically get elected by exploiting people’s fears and biases. For example a corrupt politician might blame your problems on immigrants or minorities. Meanwhile people won’t notice that they are being robbed by the billionaires.
I read interviews of people who used to be part of hate groups. The consistent theme I noticed is that they had past traumas and issues which draw them towards hateful ideologies. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/12/opinions/former-white-supremacist-how-to-tackle-hate-buckley/index.html
When talking to people it’s important to listen and respect them first before you say your points. This article has a good technique for talking with people: https://www.vice.com/en/article/how-to-change-a-voters-mind-is-deep-canvassing/ I’ve been using myself and I can vouch for it.
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Green Mario time?
/jk… unless?
Luigi’s Mansion needs a sequel.
That’s mama Luigi to you Mario.
its fighting an impossible war against the constant propaganda, which the victims are now self-reinforcing.
even if you stopped the corporate stream of lies via places like fox news, it will take decades to reverse the damage via individual counseling as you suggest. were all fucked unless something drastic happens such as a serious recession/depression forcing the views to change faster.
were all fucked unless something drastic happens such as a serious recession/depression forcing the views to change faster.
Good news, everyone!
A depression might be coming. If tariffs go in, prices will increase - that’ll produce some amount of inflation. If the inflation is high, and the dumbasses handling it are incompetent, e.g. if they came off of a clown car, they could trigger a depression. There are a few scenarios that could do it.
When you say impossible do you feel that in a literal way or “impossible” like how some people thought it was impossible for Trump to win in 2016?
I agree that reversing the full extent of the damage caused is going to take a long time, in fact I think it will take a long time even if there is a recession/depression. Right now we are going backwards if we could start by changing things so that we are moving forwards even if just a little bit it will open the door for healing which yes will take a long time but is necessary.
im basing it on the possibility of both stopping the propaganda and reversing its damage. it just seems like an insurmountable task.
I understand that. It’s not something one person can do alone. It won’t be easy. I feel it’s kind of like voting if everyone played a small part we could make big changes. For example if I could convince 5 people to volunteer and convince 20 people on the fence or unsure about Trump to be against him that could be a good victory. With those numbers we’d only need about 5% of the population to participate in this.
we cant even get 50% to care enough to bother voting.
Sounds like they feel unrepresented by both mainstream political parties. If we replaced First past the post voting, we could have more then 2 viable political parties and maybe then they would vote.
Why wait for the major parties to replace the system that keeps them in power? Why shouldn’t the people vote for a third party that truly strives to represent their views? Just because the major parties say they can’t, tie things up in the courts, and make up some bullshit to justify it? Why should the people remain committed to a system that sells them out to the highest bidder and erodes their rights no matter who is in power?
How do you know a progressive third party couldn’t also sway many Republican voters just as it does Democrat voters, by revealing just how corrupt and ineffective both major parties are, teaching the people how the other parties’ answers will fail them and have failed them in the past, and making an honest effort to stand up for working class interests?
Quite simply, we need a financial revolution. If a company pisses me off, I stop shopping there. Even if it hinders me in the long run.
There is a local grocery store chain in the Cleveland area called Marcs. It’s a low budget store. The running joke is that Marc Glassman is selling stolen/counterfeit goods, due to how cheap they are, and how fast they break/rot.
Everyone in my family agrees that I should shop there. It would probably benefit my wallet to shop there.
But in 2003, Marc Glassman was doing a store inspection before I even started my shift. They had NOBODY scheduled in my department before 4pm. They blamed me for why the shelves looked so bad, because I closed the night before, nobody worked the morning shift, and now here I am at 3:45pm, shelfs are a mess, CEO is asking questions, store manager blames me, and I get fired before I even got to the employee area to clock in.
Still to this day, I say that was bullshit. I refuse to shop at a place that took a paycheck away from me whdn I was like 20 years old, living in my first apartment, and needed money the most. They hurt me when I was vunerable. I’d shopped at Marcs since I was a kid. I’d still be shopping there now. Instead, I’ve never given them a dime since that day.
Here’s the thing about people. They have no principals. They will not do whats right if it hurts them. Nestle uses literal slave labor, but here they are, a huge company with so many brands it’s hard to keep track. If EVERYONE stopped buying nestle products, nestle couldn’t use slave labor because they wouldn’t exist.
But that’s not gonna happen, because some people just need those cookies, and hot pockets, and a bunch of other unhealthy products that continue to keep us in a disposable human life cycle. Nobody wants to take responsibility. Everyone just wants fast cheap things. Because nobody has any principals anymore. So CEOs will continue to get rich. Enjoy your hot pockets, fuckers.
Oh boy is that my passion topic. You know why this doesn’t work? Because you as a freaking consumer are not responsible! It’s just capitalism that indoctrinates this BS into all of us.
You can’t check the ethics of every service and product you consume. Nestlé is actually a good example. Yeah they suck. But so does every other nutrition mega corp. Don’t believe me? Check out how ethical “Danone” and “Kelloggs” is. Now go grocery shopping and avoid these three companies. Good luck.
It should not be the responsibility of the consumer to ensure that a company does not kill infants, fuel war, engage in slavery etc.
Just think about what you have bought recently. Did you double check the supply chain? Do you really know the ecological food print? Do you know where this stuff has been produced? Which workers, factories, and other entities have been exploited to make these? The scissors that your hair dressers use are most likely unethical.
They play you, because as long as you think “man I’m not the problem, they are” you will never realize that you have to look up to spot the asshole.
Edit: the responsibility of the customer is more like “what contains less sugar,” “what tastes better,” “what is of better value,” “what is produced more locally” etc. Not literally “are they killing babies,” “do they engage in genocide” etc.
Companies that are equally rated as bad as Nestlé contain:
- Amazon
- Dr. Oetker
- Billabong
- Beyond Meat
- Mattel
- Jack Wolfskin
Among thousands of others.
Enjoy your hot pockets, fuckers.
Beautiful. Truly poetic.
General strike. Mutual aid networks. Community defense.
Take up the soap box. When that doesn’t work, take up the ballot box. When that doesn’t work, take up the jury box. When that doesn’t work, all that’s left is the ammo box.
The fact that the president elected is a felonious rapist tells you where we are
I think we have more than enough soap boxes already. Preaching at people doesn’t work. And violent revolution tends to put the next dictator in charge in the end. The biggest problem we have is the media both foreign and domestic benefits from playing us against each other. And we gleefully jump into their little game. Yes “the right” is worse but “the left” these days doesn’t do that much better. Kamela’s whole bid for presidency was “Trump is bad” She’s not wrong it’s just not a platform.
Speak to whoever you can, your neighbors and family whoever needs it. Speak with patience and compassion, don’t fall into the “orange man bad” trap, you’ll just end up in a rage cycle. Talk about the actual underlying issues. Find local ways to address them. Build from there. Bernie is 100% right, the only way out is through the grass roots. If we give up on that then the future is nothing but violence for them and violence for us.
Oh and stop the endless doomerism. It’s another peasant trap that the powers that be adore.
mutual support networks
Now you’ve done it, Anarchist rant incoming …
heh j/k, I’ll just say disengage from capitalism as much as you can. Like obviously don’t inconvenience yourself excessively but the less you need to pay out the less you need to work for pay the more you can work for your community and help others also disengage from this broken system.
You can’t use the state to dismantle the state, vote as harm reduction and build alternatives at the same time. Anarchist Knitting circle at my place.
Repeal citizens United and institute ranked choice voting nationwide (USA)
That would make a huge difference!
Coat everything in neon accents so it’s an interesting dystopia.
First Monday of every month is Silly Hat Day!
(Mandatory, no repeat hats)
Honestly I think things like this can help. Having fun and building a sense of community can bring us together.
I don’t have the right answer. But I’ve tried to listen to different opinions and here are the take aways so far:
Plant some food. Anything at all. Microgreens in a window, a little garden, hanging tomato plant. Anything. Enjoy the cycle and try to be connected with the seasons, soil, and food.
Talk to people. I’m reading a book called Living Room Revolution that speaks on how important conversation is. Not to convince people of anything right away, but to show people you are part of their community. And to be a positive part of that community just by being willing to talk.
Understand that in all of history, there have been many awful governments. Many challenges that went unanswered for too long. Even now, there are millions, if not billions of people living in very bad conditions or under bad government, and yet, many can find positive parts of their day. We can too. And I hope that will help us make change. Before we figure out how to do that, we need to be nourished with good food and good social interaction.
I like this idea
Vote in your local elections, and never stop educating yourself.
This way we can vote for a neo-liberal dystopia instead of having a fascist one.
They say people tend to move on the right as they get older but as a middle aged man, I’m growing more cynical.
I’m not American but every government my country had in my lifetime has been working for corporations and big money instead of for the citizens. At every level.
I always voted progressive for the last 23 years but never once a progressive party won or had any significant influence on social politics. Vote for the major conservative party and we have the police violently displacing native protesters on their own land, or vote for the major alternative, a neo-liberal party that will also send the police to violently squash protests of natives against a pipeline going on their own land.
Whatever the party I vote for, oil is going to flow. The police will continue to happily apply the “necessary” violence to squash protests of people demanding better conditions or less corruption. The politicians will still collude with big corporations.
Everyone tells me to vote but my actual MP was a Greenpeace militant and is now bought and paid for, as the Environment minister, pushing for the oil industry to continue its operations for the good of the economy.
In the US you have the choice between a far right party and a party slightly less to the right, but still heavily on the right.
How the hell is voting for the lesser of two evil but still clearly evil party is going to help us out of this?
How would the Democrats fix this, if they have full control of the government? Will they give Americans free health care, or stop financing genocides? Have Obama brought the change he was supposed to? Guantanamo was closed? Was it because he/the democrats did not control enough of the government? Maybe if people vote more next time the Democrats will tackle social issues.
Just like every other government in every country. If we just all vote hard enough, the centibillionaires and their corporations will have no chance at buying our politicians?
How would the Democrats fix this, if they have full control of the government? Will they give Americans free health care, or stop financing genocides? Have Obama brought the change he was supposed to? Guantanamo was closed? Was it because he/the democrats did not control enough of the government? Maybe if people vote more next time the Democrats will tackle social issues.
I’m with you on the old and jaded bit, but that right there: they won’t do ANY of those things, they haven’t done any of those things when they 100% could have and voting for Democrats again, but with feeling! won’t get you any of them.
The only difference between the Democractic party and the GOP is that it appears the GOP would prefer to sleep with 16 year olds.
I haven’t shifted right the older I’ve gotten, I’ve shifted into accelerationist and must admit very limited give-a-shit about actions like what Luigi did and feel that maybe a few more might be more useful than another decade of me voting.
So much this! Voting is super important. I hope the recent election teaches everyone why it’s so important to get out and vote and not to stay home.
Stop trying to fix it at the voting booth. The same people we need to fight control who we get to vote for. A change candidate will never make it through to the ballot.
Who are the people who control who we vote for?
The wealthy. The DNC very publicly screwed over Bernie two elections in a row and fights to stop other parties like the PSL from getting universal ballot access
The DNC made reforms to the party after 2016. In addition who we get to vote on is controlled by the primary process. Regarding other parties unless you have ranked choice a third party will just split the vote and let Republicans win. Another alternative is having the same person run as two parties and the votes will both count for him/her like what AOC does.
You can rationalize it however you want to, it’s undemocratic and it means the people do not get to choose who they vote for.
It wasn’t just 2016. They told everyone to drop just before the primary in 2020 so Biden could run, who then only won because people were motivated to get Trump out. Then in 2024 they didn’t even have a primary, ignored protest “uncommitted” votes and pretended everything including the economy was booming, and used the same exact campaign manager for Kamala that ran Hliary’s campaign into the ground. Saying they made “reforms” is just complete bullshit to make you feel like they are responsive to the will of the people, and I can’t believe anyone falls for it.
The rest of that is just more drivel, it’s simply the most successful way the Democrats have been able to justify their anti-democratic actions and rhetoric. Candidates are electable if the people vote for them and, even if it does “split the ticket” (it doesn’t), more candidates allows more competing narratives to get out there and changes what discussions are taking place across election season. When the results come back, those results tell the major parties (and the people) what motivated the people to vote, so they can meet the people where they are and be held accountable when they refuse to. If there are no progressive candidates getting a significant number of votes, they take it as a message to move right and capture that audience instead.
If the Republicans and Democrats can’t get the people off their couches, why don’t they let someone else give it a try?
An effective and Biblically appropriate solution is to tie every health insurance CEO to a boulder, and throw them into the ocean!
Why do you think CEOs like yachts? In their heart of hearts, they yearn for the Sea. They know it is where they belong!
https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/general-strike-2028-unions-labor-movement/
Striking is the only option that has historically accomplished these goals without the violence of a civil war or military coup.
That’s a great idea! Imagine if people stop showing up to work during the Trump administration. As long as the public understand it’s Trump’s fault and Republican’s fault it could make a big difference. Communication will be very important. I think Biden got hurt by the port strikes even though he did much better managing it than Trump would have.
I suspect it would be more effective to keep it as a class war working class vs billionaires and politicians instead of a left/right issue, most working class people across the political spectrum want universal healthcare, campaign finance reform, taxes for billionaire oligarchs, etc. Dystopias are built on the wealthy leeches keeping us at each other’s throats.
As someone else in this section said, propaganda is the problem. This election demonstrated that we’ve flipped, and like in Russia, propaganda is now more powerful than truth. I can think of three potential solutions to this problem (without open conflict):
- Prevent the propaganda from reaching citizens. Enact a truth in news law that both does not allow news reporting to allow falsehoods to be spread without fact-checks at the moment of reporting, and requires digital platforms to uphold similar standards for user-generated content. The likelihood of this happening was nearly zero before Trump got his second term because politicians and businesses were already irrationally terrified of being seen as suppressing right-wing speech, but after Trump, it’s infinitesimal without some huge public push (which won’t happen).
- Educating the public about civics, fascism, authoritarianism, oligarchy, etc to allow them to individually reject the propaganda themselves. The natural place for this is high school Civics classes. This won’t bear fruit for 10-20 years at least, and now that Trump is able to exert nearly unchallenged power, it is also going to be instantly suffocated in the crib as soon as it looks critical of Trump’s rule.
- Individually remove the propaganda spread at the ground level. There is also the very remote possibility of focused conversation, where those who are not brainwashed throughout the country act as T-cells rooting out the “infection” of reactionary propaganda. This would be a simultaneous conversation that millions of Americans initiate to try to bring those who are brainwashed back to reality, at a neighborhood level. This won’t happen because Trump’s supporters explicitly are trained to reject and fight back against any non-white-listed source of information; because we’re in our social media bubbles and have no desire to get out of them; and it would require an incredible act of will on non-Trump supporter’s parts, which I don’t believe we have the capability to do.
So I think we’re screwed. My best guess:
Like in Russia, Trump will create a culture that corruption and ineptitude is “normal” so the public stops expecting (and fighting) for anything better; like in Russia, he will control messaging and suppress media to blame the opposition and scapegoats at every possible moment of political weakness; and like in Russia, he will remove election safeguards to the point where elections are no longer reliable ways to act democratically.
The eventual result is that the US’s system of government will fail hard and consistently enough that public faith in it will fall apart. But that corrupt, decayed state will probably outlast our lifetimes. Like in Russia, properly managed and with a continued monopoly on violence, a corrupt and undemocratic government even in 2024 can last for decades.
I really like the solutions you proposed. I hope your predictions don’t come true, I hope everyone can come together and work to stop what you described.
