California Atty. Gen. Rob Bonta filed a lawsuit Monday against the Chino school district, ordering an end to a policy that requires notifying parents if their children change their gender identity, alleging it is discriminatory and violates civil rights and privacy laws.
The “parental notification” policy, which has been proposed by a handful of conservative-leaning districts in California, puts transgender and gender-nonconforming students in “danger of imminent, irreparable harm” by potentially forcibly “outing” them at home before they’re ready, according to the lawsuit.
We don’t have time for school districts to be wasting with culture war bullshit anyway. This behavior must be penalized heavily. Petty tyrants can’t just force everyone to to live the same way they do.
How is telling the parents about children’s gender changes forcing e tone to live a specific way? Isn’t it letting families choose how they want to live by sharing information?
I totally do get and agree with the arguments that some kids in a bad spot could be harmed by their parents. I just dislike these weird dishonest arguments. In no way does telling the families about their children’s choices force everyone to live the same way. That’s just incorrect and actually weakens your point of view because you’re making your side look dumb and irrational.
In no way does telling the families about their children’s choices force everyone to live the same way.
It forces students with abusive bigot parents to hide who they are in all cases, not just at home.
they don’t like to think of children as people, just things to be controlled. so in their minds, not allowing schools to rat on the kids is taking control away from the parents
Agreed. I even said that in my comment. But you’d rather be angry.
I was explaining how it forces people to live like bigots want, since you evidently didn’t see that.
It only does that if their family is bigots. So it’s not enforcing a single way to live. It’s enforcing whatever the family’s way to live. It’s a dishonest argument to say that it forces everyone to live the same way and that makes the side of tolerance look stupid or dishonest.
Not applying to literally everybody doesn’t make something “dishonest”.
If you say “everything is the same” when only some of the things are the same then that’s dishonest.
It only does that if their family is bigots.
And at the moment, that’s enough for you.
So it’s not enforcing a single way to live.
It’s enforcing it on the children you consider expendable.
It’s enforcing whatever the family’s way to live.
It’s enforcing bigotry, which is why you support it.
It’s a dishonest argument to say that it forces everyone to live the same way
It forces all teachers to participate in potentially abusive situations, which is why you support it.
Because kids get kicked out of their homes for being trans. Yes; even now, regularly, and yes; even in blue states.
You didn’t actually read what I wrote. If you did, then you’d realize I agree with you.
I just dislike these weird dishonest arguments. In no way does telling the families about their children’s choices force everyone to live the same way. That’s just incorrect and actually weakens your point of view because you’re making your side look dumb and irrational.
^ you, apparently having a stroke where you flip flop between two positions and gaslight everyone else who won’t entertain your mental misfires. You look dumb af rn btw
You literally quoted everything if that paragraph except for the sentence where I said I agreed that kids would be hurt by this disclosure rule. You can’t get much more dishonest than that.
Lol, are you on that stuff or something? You’d better stay away from children.
I’ll leave you to your echo chamber
How would it let them live how they want to? How is forcibly sharing information allowing the family a choice? My brother is bi. Would forcibly outing him to our parents allow us a choice or does it deny one to my brother?
It depends on your family. It gives your family a choice about how they want to raise their child. It doesn’t enforce the school’s belief in anyone. It gives their families the choice of whether or not to enforce their beliefs and those are very different things.
What a ridiculous argument. If schools don’t out kids about things that have nothing to do with school, families don’t get a choice in how to raise their children?
If these parents care so deeply for their children, then why aren’t they already aware of any of this? This rule is nothing more than bigots and bad parents wanting to outsource the job of monitoring their children to state employees.
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What part of that isn’t true?
All of it. Wow, you are just dishonest to the core.
Obviously you aren’t even trying to have an honest discussion.
I’m sorry but do you see “repressing your child’s sexuality/gender identity” as a valid choice a parent can make?
This is what you seem to be implying here.
If the child trusted their parents with that information, they’d tell their parents. These policies only hurt children who cannot afford to do so, ate you aware of this?
I agree with you
You agree with me but you still want schools to be forced to out trans kids to their parents, so they can “decide how to raise their children”?
I didn’t say I supported it. I said that claiming that it is forcing everyone to live the same way is false and claiming that makes the side that is opposed to the disclosure rule look stupid and irrational.
Please do the world a favor and don’t reproduce.
What business is it of the school to be reporting something like this? It’s none of their business. The only thing a school should be reporting is poor academic performance or inappropriate behavior, and a child’s gender identity is neither one of those things. They question is where do you draw the line if not here? There’s been legislature put forward in some state(s) that says a young women should disclose when she is menstrating and how long ago her last one was… let’s nip this is the bud and draw the line right here, because all this is is a school snitching on transgender kids in hopes that the parents take action against them whether that is emotional, physical or both.
They question is where do you draw the line if not here? There’s been legislature put forward in some state(s) that says a young women should disclose when she is menstruating and how long ago her last one was… let’s nip this is the bud and draw the line right here
You are mistaken in thinking that those who are for snitching on trans kids would be anything but pro girls being forced to disclose their menstruation (which is also a way to target trans kids, as well as plain old controlling those who are AFAB).
The control and the harm are the point, appealing to their morals (or even their sense of shame) will never get you anywhere because they simply have none.
How is telling the parents about children’s gender changes forcing e tone to live a specific way?
You heavily underestimate the amount of parents that would beat their kids near to death over this
No he doesn’t. He hopes it happens, and often.
You didn’t actually read what I wrote then. You saw some things that you disagree with and then shit your brain off and imagined me as a monster. This is why we can’t have nice things.
We can’t have nice things because people like you call honest arguments and sincere problems “dishonest”.
It’s a sincere problem and a dishonest argument against it. And you can’t even get past your reflexive reaction to being slightly disagreed with to see that we agree with each other. That’s why we can’t have nice things. Too many people from all viewpoints can’t get along because they reflexively imagine people with slightly differing opinions to be monsters.
Funny, I might say the same to you.
That doesn’t make any sense. I’m the only person who acknowledges that we agree with each other that this disclosure is a problem and will get people hurt. I did it in the first comment I made. So you’re still being ridiculous and dishonest.
We can’t have nice things becaude chucklefucks like you don’t give a shit if kids get beat.
You can claim you do all you want, but that’s the very obvious outcome of not heavily opposing schools outing kids.
We can’t have nice things because as soon as someone says something that isn’t so dogmatic that it matches opinion 100% you imagine the other person to be a monster and shut off your brain before you even realize you have common ground. For example, I agree that this disclosure agreement is bad because some kids will be very hurt by it both physically and emotionally. But you’re too ignorant and reactionary to even realize that. And people on both sides have become just like you and that’s why we can’t have nice things.
Children get beat, kicked out of their homes, and worse by parents for simpler things.
Is that what you want? Do you want a child to die because their abusive parents found out something the child was hiding, because they didn’t want to die?
Do you want a child to die because their abusive parents found out something the child was hiding,
That’s exactly what these chucklefucks want
you didn’t actually read everything I wrote if you think I think that. If you did read it then you would realize I agree with you.
In no way does telling the families about their children’s choices force everyone to live the same way. That’s just incorrect and actually weakens your point of view because you’re making your side look dumb and irrational.
Except it’s literally what they’re doing - if a child doesn’t feel comfortable being honest to their family about their gender identity you bet there is damn good reason, and forcing any authority to disclose this information without the child’s consent is forcing them to live in a situation they’ve already concluded they could not survive.
There is only one side here that is irrational, and it’s the one advocating to harm children under the pretence of “concern” for them.
It’s potentially giving abusive parents ammo to withhold gender affirming care such as social transitioning, which is proven to reduce suicide rates in trans kids and teens. Parents forcing their kids to stop socially transitioning in school can be traumatic, and cause long term emotional damage, and it can even result in children being kicked out of their homes as a result in some cases. It’s taking away a space where they feel safe to express themselves against their will. Even for kids where they won’t experience a worst case scenario, there’s no reason to tell a kid’s parent that they’re presenting as a different gender at school instead of letting them make that choice for themselves. Either the kid feels safe enough to tell their parents themselves, or they don’t. And if they don’t feel safe telling their parents then forcibly outing them is one of the cruelest things you can do to a child in that situation. Coming out to your family is an extremely personal thing and should only ever be up to the person to decide when and who to tell, not their school.
Agreed. 100%. I hope California can stop them from disclosing that to their parents.
Isn’t it letting families choose how they want to live by sharing information?
No, it’s forcing them to be outed. Let people choose how to live, and who to tell.
In principle, where should the line be drawn between local and state control in matters like this? On the one hand, I think notification policies are mean-spirited and likely to do real harm. On the other hand, they have the support of the majority in these school districts. If we say that the state ought to override local policy in cases like this, what will we say in cases where a conservative state government is seeking to impose its will on progressive communities (sanctuary cities in states that are cracking down on illegal immigrants, municipalities refusing to enforce drug laws, etc.)?
(The answer is probably “neither side has a principled stance regarding the balance of power between state and local governments so we might as well do everything we can to support specific policies we agree with rather than abstract principles” but IMO it would be nice if there were commonly-accepted principles about this sort of thing.)
There was once a time where the majority was fine with segregation. The majority isn’t always right, and where they shouldn’t be given default control is imo when it affects the quality and safety of the lives of other people. We know for a fact that a policy like this will harm children, there are statistics to back it up.
If a local government was trying to make it legal to lynch minorities, then I don’t think there are many people who would argue that the state interfering would be a bad thing. This situation may not be quite as extreme, but it’s definitely not harmless either. If the state is seeking to do more direct harm to people, then it’s pretty obviously not a good thing. Unfortunately there are a lot of conservatives who just plain like harming people as long as those people don’t look like them 😒
The US is structured so that most of the legislation is (or was, anyway) done at the state level, as part of the whole “laboratory of democracy” thing, per the tenth amendment. The federal level is supposed to be pretty weak, mostly just coordinating between states and on international issues. So according to the design of the various levels of government, it’s correct that the state can override cities. (And in turn, Congress can override the states, but wasn’t supposed to happen that much.)
Of course this hasn’t really worked out in practice, with the federal government assuming more responsibilities. And I’m not saying any of this was a good or bad idea. But that’s how it was designed.
Crazy. Schools are there to work for the parents, not hide things from them. If child abuse is suspected they are required to report it to police. If any teacher tried to hide something like this from me about my kid I’d report them for child abuse.
No, schools work for the children, not the parents.
reading posts like the one you’re replying to, and hearing the ways many conservatives talk about children, makes me think they don’t want kids so much as they want to be “parents”. it doesnt seem as though many of them like or respect their kids, so much as they view having kids as a necessary part of the atomic family and “good conservative living”. having kids is like having an F150, you’re just supposed to have them. and like trucks, it’s annoying when they have problems or when they don’t perfectly match the ideas parents had about what kids are “supposed to be”.
i think this is why it’s so inconceivable for them that schools should work for the children. the mechanic works on the truck, but it doesn’t work for the truck.
It’s exactly that. The kids are an accessory. Not someone to love and nurture. Someone to subjugate.
No, I pay the bill, not my kids. That goes for public schools or private schools.
No, everyone pays the bill.
You saying “no” is incorrect because they are part of the everyone you mention.
Also, everyone does not pay the bill. Only homeowners and renters (taxes baked into their rent cost). Let’s not forget how many people are homeless (and growing).
And you are free to tell your children’s teachers whatever you want.
I am childless and I also pay for public schools to teach students. I don’t pay for them to out children to abusive parents like you want.
We all “pay the bill” because educating children is a moral requirement for humanity.
It’s not a service you are paying for for yourself. That is warped sense of morality.
Whoa, everybody check out this guy, he pays taxes. Let us all bow down in his presence.
Everybody pays taxes, buddy. Paying taxes doesn’t entitle you to an army of snitches spying on your kids. If you want to learn about your kid’s life, maybe you should talk to your kids instead of relying on strangers to do it for you.
Children are human beings and human beings aren’t property and you don’t get the right to control their entire lives because you pay for their basic needs.
Why would your child be so terrified of you that they don’t want to tell you their gender?
They wouldn’t. They know if anyone tries to tell them to keep a secret from Mom and Dad that person is bad person.
They know if anyone tries to tell them to keep a secret from Mom and Dad
And who is telling them that in this situation?
They know if anyone tries to tell them to keep a secret from Mom and Dad that person is bad person.
But that isn’t what is happening in this situation. The teachers are not telling the child to keep a secret. The child is asking the teachers to keep a secret. It’s literally the opposite situation.
That’s true, and it’s the teacher’s duty to report any change of behavior to the administration and parents. Imagine your kid coming home with a black eye, and when you call the school to ask WTF happened they responded “we don’t have to tell you.”
Hang on. You completely mischaracterised the situation in your previous comment, but then when that is pointed out to you, you just continue on without acknowledging that you had the situation completely backwards?
No. Acknowledge that you previous argument was nonsense.
Imagine your kid coming home with a black eye
Why are you imagining a completely different situation and pretending that it is relevant to what is happening here?
A child trying out a different name or pronouns is not harmful to the child or anyone else. A child suffering physical abuse is.
A black eye is direct harm. If you’re suggesting that being gay is equally a direct harm to a person, then you’re just an objectively bad person.
I’m not suggesting anything. I’m clearly stating that withholding information from parents about their children makes you a monster.
The kids are the ones asking for a secret, their secret, to be kept from you (and I don’t even mean the general you, I mean specifically you, because you’ve made it clear you view your kids, if you even have any, as your property, and any child to a parent like that would be keeping more secrets from you than you will ever be willing to admit), not the teacher, so as if your point wasn’t weak enough already, you’re literally making no sense at all at this point.
And it’s the duty of a teacher to report any change of behavior to the parents and administration.
Ok, so the kid was always trans. No change of behavior. Therefore no report. Right?
So if a kid decides he likes strawberry milk instead of chocolate milk, that needs to be reported to parents and administration? If a kid makes a new friend who happens to be of a different race, should that be reported to parents and administration? Where do you draw the line in your ridiculous fantasy?
When are the teachers supposed to find time to teach if they’re spending the entire class writing reports because little Billy has a new favorite color and little Sarah decided she doesn’t like My Little Pony anymore?
It’s the duty of a teacher to nurture their students and keep them safe, and that should absolutely include keeping them safe from their own parents. Any teacher that feels otherwise is not someone you should trust with your kids.
Cool, so this isn’t about you then.
Not letting kids have any secrets or privacy in their lives is not good for them. You have to teach them the difference between harmful secrets that they shouldn’t keep, like when someone else is hurting them, and secrets that are safe and acceptable to keep for themselves, such as something personal that they should only tell people if they feel comfortable doing so willingly like whether they are trans or gay. You’re not teaching your kids to not keep secrets if you think forcefully outing them is in any way appropriate or acceptable, you’re teaching them to get better at hiding things from you. You should be teaching them to feel safe coming to you when they are ready because they trust you to let them do so on their own terms, not because they were forced to. Kids that aren’t allowed to have any secrets are far more likely to keep things from their parents, because they learn that they aren’t allowed to choose when and who to tell something based on whether they feel comfortable or safe doing so, and so keeping secrets becomes a way for them to take back that sense of security and control that you haven’t allowed them to have. If they don’t feel safe telling you something like this themselves, then that’s because you’re the one doing something wrong, not them, and it should be up to you to repair that broken trust. But forcing the secret out of them against their will is only going to further destroy any remaining trust they may have had in you, and teach them to never be open and honest with you because you’ve shown them that you are untrustworthy.
Crazy. Schools are there to work for the parents, not hide things from them.
If the child felt safe at home, their parents would likely already know.
If child abuse is suspected they are required to report it to police.
Firstly, the abuse could start after the parent’s are notified, at which point it is too late. But secondly you and I both know that this is absolutely not how things actually shake out in the real world. Parents regularly get away with abusing their children, even more so when the abuse is not physical.
If any teacher tried to hide something like this from me about my kid I’d report them for child abuse.
Then I hope you face consequences for spurious reporting.
(edit: apostrophe’s!)
Please explain to me how this specific instance of not outing a child is abuse.
You know that the children in these situations will be abused before the situation can be investigated, right? That child abuse has to occur, before it can be reported? What will trigger the abuse is snitching on children. For what, wearing a dress? Painting their nails? Growing a mustache? Coming out to your family is an intensely personal thing that should always ALWAYS be the choice of the person coming out, ESPECIALLY if they are a child. Schools should put the KIDS first, the school isn’t there for the parents, it’s there for the kids, and if you think that violating the consent of trans kids is okay because “you can just report abuse!” as if that is always effective and can always be proven and will always result in the kids being saved, then you’re naive at best and complicit at worst. Get the fuck over yourself. Your kid’s sense of safety and consent and comfort should ALWAYS come first for you. The fact that it doesn’t is fucking disgusting.
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