Currently remodeling a domicile, with the sweet and expensive ability to add anything I want within reason. I plan on modernizing the place to bring it into the 21st century because this house deserves it (just a great structure with lots of history and nearing it’s centennial birthday).
Luckily, everything is built perfectly for access so nothing is off the table. I came onto this property with my own server “rack” and a mini diy setup for network debauchery, but plan on expanding that and installing a mini-server “room” (a fancy closet I might install in a “dead space” that I can pipe duct work in and out of).
I will be running all new electrical, A/C, Telecom lines, the whole works. I’m currently in the process of ripping out all the old coaxial, phone, piping, anything not ran properly or of a modern importance (probably reinstall phone and doorbell circuits but they’re currently strewn everywhere from previous installers). I’m also creating up to date blueprints for the structure and including mechanical systems/engineering schematics for anything I’m doing or plan to do. All of this will be saved to a USB for the next owner and printed out for a laminated notebook to stay with the house (maybe a copy for myself for the nostalgia one day).
The only 2 things I KNOW I want to do is installing
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a monitor with a pi that will run a weather and local data program that I’ve been working on into the kitchen area
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a multi-camera cctv system (local and offsite backup) with a monitor in a neutral-shared living area.
I will probably leave those parts of the system installed here unless it’s requested to be removed. I actually would love to leave everything here as a full system package for someone to “inherit” with the house but I’m not sure if that’s a benefit or a hindrance someone wants to receive.
There’s 3 different plans in the works (3/5/10 year plans, we are here for family but that will eventually not be required and we desperately want out of this area), depending on the time frame I might need to put in
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monitoring stations for renewable energy systems (solar/wind),
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a personalized-home weather monitoring system (barometric,temp,humidity) with a display and functionality to control the mechanical systems (A/C adjustment, daylight sensors for shades/lighting, etc),
and a bunch of other off the wall ideas I’ve been wanting to tinker with. Unfortunately most videos out there of “home setups” include someone with 10x my price bracket and their system is designed for themselves and their specific equipment in mind. I’m wanting to install something more generic that anyone would have use for (like weather and security). There are really only 2 “office areas” that I think would require a hardline besides any monitors I have to install for systems (I don’t mind running wiring, but I don’t think every room needs an ethernet port to be functional, or am I wrong thinking this way?). I will probably need to install repeaters in two locations though to cover the entire property in wifi because old houses gobble signals up but inside everything “just” reaches.
Everything I’ve done with my network so far I’ve gotten around needing a switch (it would’ve saved me a lot of hassle in the past but I usually find a way to get everything connected or just disconnect unused equipment that’s ran it’s course), but at this point I can’t expand any further without a headache. So now I’m looking at new tech and equipment I don’t have hands-on experience with and don’t know it’s proper use/limitations which I don’t like when making action plans. I figured just trying to get a general sense of what people want or see would be a better angle to come at since I don’t do this professionally and don’t have the insider knowledge of the taboos of home networking infrastructure.
TLDR: What kind of wiring, connection setups are important to you and won’t be obsolete after a few years? What do you consider a “modern” house to have or are decent “quality of life” improvements like lighting control, sensors, etc? What’s your best case scenario of equipment when walking into a house and seeing a pre-installed setup?
edit: I’m not sure why but for some reason I’m not seeing everyone’s comments (assuming de-federated instances from .ml but seeing it since I posted on .world), if I don’t respond I apologize and will probably look for a new instance if this is the case.
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Conduit everywhere. Every cable will be obsolete eventually, a conduit run to every room with pull cables makes it so replacing cables doesn’t require a remodel.
I wonder why I don’t see houses using dropped ceilings to provide for infrastructure space with easy access? It seems like a universal in offices that I’ve seen.
Poor insulation, and even if you had drop ceilings you still have headers you’d have to drill through at the top of every wall. Not to mention they look awful and damage easily.
My first home had a dropped ceiling in the basement. It was so ugly, dropped whatever the hell that material is all over the floor when you moved it, and it was an old house so it started to discolor.
I’d rather crawl space that allows for running cable once every 10 years than have to deal with a dropped ceiling.
and here I thought I was being excessive with thinking about conduit. There is a large unfinished basement that mostly everything in it was destroyed from a flood. After I ripped everything out, installed a new stairwell, and ran new drainage to avoid the next eventual flood (as all lower elevations like to do), I was pondering running conduit for everything to protect from moisture in that area for at the very least some high wall outlets to power systems down there. I could scale that plan back and not have everything being conduit (for cost sake) but install it in specific spots for anything that won’t have easy access in the future. I know of a few spots that will need new lines ran through 3 floors so the pull cables would come in handy for future use.
It’s excessive if you’re only thinking short term, but longer term it is 100% worth it. It’s one of those things you’ll kick yourself for in 5 years.
If I could do it all over again? Wired ethernet to every room, back to a utility closet connected to a fiber line.
Fiber is a sore subject lol, it was a big local deal when fiber was coming to town with newspaper articles and everything about the big development and how great everything was gonna be with the upgrade in speed. Lots of crews all over the county for months (maybe years? time is fickle) and even had them running the lines on my street and a relatives on the other side of the main town. Turns out they decided to not actually make fiber available for the area, it’s just running through. I understand you can’t just splice into fiber lol, still irks me I have a box I can’t touch or move with “Fiber” labelled on it sitting on the property though and have to deal with cable internet that runs like it’s a DSL connection.
With wired Ethernet to every room, would something of this type of connection be aesthetically pleasing? I would like to bundle everything so there’s not an excessive amount of wall plates and others have suggested running two lines in parallel with STP cat6a (cat8 will probably be saved for the next place if it has fiber available). I’m just worried about the look of having several wall jacks or several unknown connections that might confuse someone (I will label everything but that only goes so far for understanding). If I include coaxial it might look a little like this style of outlet if I’m not running two ethernet ports. I’m starting to lean into the coaxial/single ethernet just because cable/satellite tv is still king around these parts and people love their boxes.
If you had to have a modem box for internet with coaxial or DSL, would you prefer that tucked away into the server closet as well? or keep that in a separate area with the phone connections and just run an ethernet from the modem to the server closet where the router and switch setup are at?
Combo plate is fine, but I’d argue not worth it. ITs much easier, more scalable, and more flexible for network wiring to be a separate junction box and plate. That also makes it easier to have multiple drops where appropriate, or to do future work.
I don’t know how big a concern it is but network wiring in parallel to power too much, can pick up noise from power lines. Wire them separately and you don’t have to think about it
Yeah, a combo plate with power would be fine, I don’t know that anyone needs RJ-11 phone jacks anymore, but if you have a use case…
Sorry to hear about your fiber problem. I’m similar in that I can get fiber to the house, but my exterior wall is solid cinder block and I can’t find an installer willing to drill through it. :(
I need to get a mason out to poke a hole, THEN maybe I can think about fiber.
But, yeah, run the internet connection in to the utility closet, connect that to a switch, then run ethernet from the switch to every room.
I would run at least 2 CAT6 STP lines to every room and probably even run some fiber too since 10G over copper is power hungry. I would install hard wired WiFi access points wherever needed to get good 5/6GHz coverage over the entire house.
I would also install a dedicated UPS circuit so I could have a single, large UPS to backup everything that needs it.
a dedicated UPS circuit so I could have a single, large UPS to backup everything that needs it
That’s beautiful and didn’t cross my mind. I’ve done solar installs so my mind always just thinks of that type of battery bank for my needs, that’s definitely a viable alternative that I could tie into the cctv system for continuous security as well without adding extra systems. I’ve only had a small “pc” UPS that crapped out on me years ago but I see they’re scalable so I will entertain myself looking at some specs while pondering.
Even with solar a UPS is a good idea if you’re running a home server. You can still get voltage spikes or brief outages. You don’t want to lose power when you have a service writing to a database.
That being said a single large UPS is expensive to maintain. For home use I don’t go over 1000W on a single UPS. Any larger than that creeps into ‘enterprise pricing’ for battery replacements.
Another solution is to future-proof the house with a whole home battery pack that also serves to charge electric vehicles. That would serve the same purpose as the UPS. But it’s definitely a more expensive solution.
Yeah at least 2 cat6 cables and 1-2 MMF or SMF fiber pairs to every drop. At least 1 drop per room and include ceiling drops for ceiling-mounted wifi. Always pull double what you think you’ll use at a location, since pulling new cables is more expensive than the cable itself.
STP might be overkill for home wiring though, tbh. I would really only recommend it if you’re running any cable outside or near kitchen appliances or motors.
I ran UTP at home and I really wish I would have run STP when I had the chance. The broadband RFI from the ethernet raises my noise floor by about 4-6db on HF and VHF.
I recommend rectangular cable ducts where one face can be removed instead of using conduit. Also, it should never run parallel to a 110/220V power cable - you can cross them, but don’t run alongside them. Low voltage power (like PoE) is fine.
Finally - tell anyone who works on your house that if you find any electrical tape or cable ties — you’re going to ask them to come back and remove them - I wouldn’t do it yourself especially cable ties since there’s a non-zero risk you might damage the cable and have to run a new one.
Those two things should never be used — they’re quick and dirty tools used by lazy people who want to spend 10 seconds less time on today’s job, and don’t care if it creates hours of extra work in a few year’s time.
Velcro strapping tape is the way to go. It lasts longer and is easily removed. The only drawback is it’s a little ugly - I’ll use tape or cable ties if the wiring is exposed… but you shouldn’t have any exposed wiring in a house.
https://www.amazon.com.au/Reusable-Fastening-Cable-Double-Sided-Management/dp/B09C3SVY9Q
https://www.amazon.com.au/Rectangular-Cable-Duct-25-16mm/dp/B07QM6X9V7
For your CCTV lookup Frigate NVR, and grab a ~30$ Coral TPU for it. Run your cameras with a PoE switch.
Home Assistant is THE gold standard for smart homes. ZigBee is nice too, since they mesh and aren’t the same wave length as WiFi.
Edit: oops I meant ZWave, not ZigBee.
Unfortunately Zigbee is precisely 2.4GHz, which isn’t used much for phones and laptops, but still widely used in TVs, vacuum robots and other smart devices that don’t need much bandwidth.
2.4Ghz is the right frequency to use - it has pretty good internal wall penetration and you want that. You don’t need much bandwidth to turn alight on, so there’s nothing wrong with a bit of competition on the channel.
Your TV/etc shouldn’t be on a wireless connection.
2.4GHz ia good in theory, in practice tho, every technology especially the open protocols use it so there is a lot of interference. I know that because I had to lower the 2.4GHz wifi power by a lot so it doesn’t cause issues with the zigbee mesh.
As for tv I would agree if TVs came with gigabit NIC, but the majority comes with 100mbps card, so if you want to stream some high quality 100+mbps content you have no other option but to use the wifi or give up the usb port for a usb ethernet nic or use a usb hub. Not pretty solitions for sure.
And then you have the robot vacuum which can only use 2.4GHz wifi for obvious reasons. And people might have IPcams which are also on wifi.
Wait, shit. I meant the OTHER z named one. Zwave.
Zwave is nice, but a lot more expensive due to hardware certification costs
For my money, KNX>Zwave>Zigbee. Zigbee’s standard are not certified so you get non compliant devices that don’t work well, and 2.4 is a very crowded frequency with lots of interference not only from other wireless devices but also microwaves, etc. Zwave solves both of these issues and generally has a higher level of quality, but for me a wired standard will always beat a wireless one if I’m starting from scratch.
For the first stage, think about the equipment in terms of what wiring would support it. Focus on wiring.
You won’t regret even more wiring or running conduit to simplify future upgrades. Ethernet everywhere, more than one. If you might want a camera somewhere, run ethernet. If you might have an entertainment center or computer setup, run multiple ethernet. Doorbell wiring - consider ethernet. At least Ring has a doorbell cam for ethernet.
For automation, think local control. Your gadgets should prefer Zigbee, zwave or Thread, over WiFi or Bluetooth and not require a vendor website to run. You’ll need ethernet for a hub, but if you use smart switches, you can build out a network mesh with good coverage. Simple Zigbee/zwave sensors like door/window, or flood last a surprisingly long time on batteries, although powered is always better
If you wire things, use keystones. I didn’t know that standard. Makes it much easier to have ethernet. My house had non standard keystone type things. Those are sort expensive, I replaced them with keystones just not have to deal with anything other than keystones in future.
I totally agree with the first part. I’ll be building a home in a few years and I’m going to be running Ethernet cable to the home theater system, to the home office, to the doorbell, to the primary bedroom, probably to places where I need to put WAPs, and to places I may not need but could get use out of in the future.
I’m tired of having a WiFi router on one side of the house with crap coverage elsewhere and no way to wire my PC and game console without PITA cable running effort.
I’ll probably have a network closet built in somewhere or stick a router or switch in the utility closet so that I can put WAPs anywhere in the house.
One of the limitations that surprised me was getting a mesh router. I made sure to get one that could use a wired backhaul for availability and coverage (and yes I’m aware some will complain then it’s no longer a mesh). However I was surprised that they needed good WiFi connectivity for setup. I had to set them up next to each other before moving them to their intended locations (my house is not big but is just deadly to any radio signals)
lol I’ve seen that before and sympathize every time I see my router log filled with my partners apple devices doing their thing. I’m slowly convincing them to move away from it all with suitable replacements I find along the way.
Put at least one network drop in every room. You can always cover it if you want, and the ability to change the layout in the room can be handy. Also new furniture can force layout changes.
Also add significantly more power outlets than you think you need. I’d go every 2-3 feet in bedrooms and offices. That way blocking an outlet isn’t a big deal.
If you’re already down to studs, it’s significantly cheaper to add more than you think you need than trying to retrofit things later. Conduit is a good idea to make adding or removing lines easier in the future. You can also add boxes for things like a sound system or intercom and cover them with drywall if you don’t want to use them right away.
At least one cat 6 ethernet in each room. Multiple outlets in any media room. One of my old houses had speaker jacks in each corner of the room which was a godsend when setting up surround sound for a home cinema setup.
- structured wiring
- home automation (zigbee, zwave, matter)
For a CCTV point of view, cheep Chinese ip cameras that have poe and are blocked from the internet (own vlan), having them run via frigate with a coral you should be more than enough for you.
You can the bundle this and all your other home smartness into a home assistant server.
Job done.
cheep Chinese ip cameras that have poe and are blocked from the internet
That’s a good point. I’ve been introduced to those systems with some installs and was avoiding anything that connected to a server not under my control even if it’s more complicated (completely wigs me out people are complacent with some unknown server recording EVERYTHING). I hadn’t looked into “dumbing” the cameras to take advantage of their lower price points, much like you can buy a smart tv but avoid it’s connectivity to use it more privately and without bloatware. Been sporadically searching security systems the past few weeks so I’ll have to double down and keep that perspective in mind.
A complete and affordable setup that will merge anything you want inside a single app will be by using home assistant. But while it is much easier to setup and maintain than a few years ago, selling the house will require new owner to have a few tech knowledge. You also have to make sure that your setup is designed to be used by all family whatever there age and knowledge (and it isn’t always simple)
Describing everything available that would make it a perfect place will take a very very long comment but here are some hint, look at ethernet cameras instead of wifi, ZigBee and zwave instead of wifi for most of the devices as those protocols are designed for smart homes unlike wifi, use as less as possible cloud base solution.
As a starter, you can check for temperatures/humidity sensors, contact sensors for doors/windows, automated curtains, switches, presence detection, lights, leak detectors, weather station, energy monitoring,…
Oh nice! I had home assistant on my radar from other open source threads I read but hadn’t run across the site link or realized they have smart hubs for sale with it. I’ve been hesitant with the automation setup because of the complications you mentioned. I imagined the high priced homes/condos with automated systems probably came with a subscription service for customer support with the equipment installed but wasn’t sure if that assumption was right. If I can pull the same thing off with an open source project that’s reliable and has custom equipment built for it then maybe it’s worth looking into after all.
They do have hub (probably pi like hub) with ZigBee and/or zwave but best to use a small nuc (or similar) and get a ZigBee dongle. Will be a bit more expensive but worth it. Have no idea about pricing for subscription service but I’m not sure they can even match the power of home assistant automation capabilities.
Yeah, unfortunately it’s really hard to sell home automation with the house. I think a well-engineered, simple node-red setup might be resellable if done right, but it’s not easy to do. The hardware has to last for 20 years with redundancy, the node-red and os has to programmed in a way that it will always work, even if it’s unplugged or loses connection, and you need some sort of consistent way to control it that isn’t pulling out a computer and logging into port 8080.
If you’re running ducting into your server/switch cabinet I’ve thought before that it could be interesting to have an exhaust setup that you can switch between venting the excess heat directly outside (in summer) or back into the main house (in winter).
To put this in perspective:
- if you have a lab or commercial equipment, active ventilation (fans) is important
- if your data closet has a switch and WiFi, don’t try to stuff it into a structured wiring box. A closet, maybe with passive ventilation (air circulation) is probably fine
In my old house, I didn’t have much equipment but I tried to put it all into the structured wiring box … and wondered why my switches kept dying.
My current house has much more, but it’s all small form factor, attached to a data wall, open to the basement air, so no concerns about heat. A huge plus is how easy it is to work with
The only problem with that is if you’re pumping air out you have to think about where the air is coming in from. Older fireplaces are notorious for this because any air escaping through the chimney has to be replaced usually resulting in the rest of the house becoming actually colder through air gaps/cracks. Newer built houses even have ductwork for controlled air introduction when using exhaust fans like the range hood over the stove to maintain relative pressures with energy efficient houses (this house is nowhere near that level yet, but once newer windows are installed and I can seal the outlets I replace/install it will be one step closer).
One thought I did have is running the HVAC return through the area, it would reduce the relative humidity of the house as I’ve already installed several dehumidifiers for the closed crawl spaces I’ve sealed up and insulated but this whole geographical area is just horrible (/s about the servers being a dehumidifier, but realistically the equipment has to have some type of impact even if 1% lol) . Nearly every house I’ve worked on has some type of moisture issue but home owners typically don’t care unless it becomes life-threatening or threatens the structure. My thoughts on the return is so cold air isn’t directly blasted into the area as the dramatic temperature change might introduce condensation, the calculations for the CFM (airflow) have to be exact though so I’m not killing any systems early. The house has an old A/C system with an oil heating system (also has propane and electrical heating in other locations, idk if the person before me had a thing for collecting all the systems but it’s rather insane), the a/c doesn’t cover the entire structure though so I either have to think about replacing the entire setup (it is rather old but looks well maintained surprisingly) or milking the old system while installing a secondary hvac system for the unconditioned areas (mainly 2nd floor, plenty of attic space to install it which will probably be sealed as well if I do).
You definitely hit on a great idea though, I was planning on installing a secondary thermostat in the server area. If I did a return through and set it to active the hvac system fan when a temperature threshold is reached, in the winter it would disperse the heat through the house and I wouldn’t have to worry about the system switching from A/C to Heat or how I would continue to cool an area now getting hot air directly pumped into it. Then in the summer the air returning would be directly cooled when necessary and released back into the house so I’m not worrying about another outside vent opening requiring filters that need to be replaced/inspected etc. Might be able to pull off the airflow requirements with something as simple as a slotted closet door a lot of bedrooms have. I would be concerned someone might replace the door one day without realizing it’s importance so maybe dedicated wall venting into the server area is safer, even if it looked worse.
I built a 24V DC power network in my server and office space two years ago, backed by a battery. The constant “UPS” is great, and its power efficient.
Wired links to doors and windows for wired contacts/sensors. The cheap wireless burgler alarms can easily be jammed. Also wires for automatic shutters (if you have shutters).
Metereological sensors (wind/rain/temperature) for e.g. retracting an awning if it rains or the wind gets to strong. Can also be used for control the heating/AC.
Network sockets (or at least tubes to run them through) basically everywhere. Have you thought of having an outlet where the big mirror in the corridor/entrance area is, so you can one day turn set up a magic mirror there?
Have you thought or wiring up motion sensors throughout the house to automate lighting (and get additional input for the burgler alarm)?
Wired links for any kind of camera is vital, be it the door cam, or anything watching the place for security reasons.
Wired smoke alarms! Not only will they be connected, so they all start beeping when smoke or fire is detected, but you don’t have to change batteries every other year, and you can integrate the output inot he home automation system and get a mail or SMS is case of an emergency-
What kind of smart appliances could you imagine? Smart fridge, smart washing machine? Even if there is a non-smart device, you can rig a raspberry pi or even an arduino to detect the beeping of your dryer and send you an email.
Well, and more network sockets…
Do you have some outdoors (patio, garden)? Does it have wifi coverage?
That’s just of the top of my head…
