- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
People are getting fed up with all the useless tech in their cars — For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, wit…::People are dissatisfied with the technology in their cars, according to a new survey from JD Power. They especially don’t like the native infotainment systems.
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Some proposed design principles:
- It’s a car.
- It’s not a goddamn TV.
- It’s not your goddamn ads platform or subscription service.
- It is, however, a piece of life-safety-critical equipment.
- Because it’s a car, the driver wants to deal with car stuff like driving, navigating, fuel, roads, obstacles, and not killing people.
- They also want to make it passably comfortable by messing with the heat or AC, the fans, the windows, and the fucking moon roof.
- Messing with your phone while driving is Actually Illegal these days in civilized parts of the planet. This is for good reason: people get killed that way.
- If the car requires messing with your phone, or messing with something that is basically your phone, then you have failed.
- There should be a big knob with a fan icon on it. Turning this knob all the way to the left causes the fan to turn off all the way. Turning the knob all the way to the right causes the fan to turn on all the way.
- If I ever have to use a touchscreen to control the side mirrors, I will become an extremely unhappy ape.
I would pay more to get a car with more buttons than you can comprehend and a small little infotainment system that allows you to play music than a super futuristic car with a iPad in the center and nothing else in the center console area.
physical buttons for the important stuff; stuff like setting interior RBG lighting color and intensity? that can go on soft buttons.
If a feature can go on soft buttons, it can stay at the fucking factory.
EQ for the sound system?
My 2004 Honda accord had a good EQ, and it was all controlled with 2 buttons and the radio tuning dial to adjust the levels.
There is no need for a touchscreen in a vehicle. A small screen for displaying information is one thing, but I should not be compelled to play with what amounts to an iPad when I’m driving a car.
If the sound system is why the touchscreen is in the car, the sound system can stay at the factory.
For real if I wanted RGB footwell lighting I would install it myself. And I did, in my first beater car, as a dumb teenager does. I thought it looked pretty cool.
But now as a grown man I want a car to start every time, go fast when I step on the pedal, and have AC like a refrigerator. If it’s a truck I want it to pull heavy trailers and not get stuck in mud and THAT’S IT.
Currently driving a 2008 Crown Vic and a 1978 F350 on propane, both of which do exactly what I want.
Adjusting mirrors and seats can go on the touch screen as you do that before the drive and I don’t think those can stay at the factory.
Sometimes I have to readjust the mirrors during a trip depending on how I sit.
No thanks, mirrors and seats are too important for the touch screen and sometimes need to be adjusted while driving, as you adjust your sitting position.
And really, I don’t want to spend an extra 10 seconds (if you know the car) or 2 minutes (if it’s someone else’s) to get the seat and mirrors adjusted beofre a drive. I want to get in the car, adjust things quickly, and go.
How are you people moving in your seat this much? I never had to adjust anything but the rear view mirror and that is manual anyway.
My posture is completely different in the city, where I am constantly leaning forward and looking over shoulders to clear blind spots, and my foot is regularly on brake and accelerator. Contrast on the highway, where my head and body are mostly still, and my feet are flat on the floor while using cruise control. Since I’m not moving around as much, I regularly move the seat slightly to reduce pressure points.
Similar with the mirrors: For city driving, I want my mirrors a little lower and narrower to see parking spots while backing. For freeway, a little higher and wider gives better visibility of the blind spots without needing to move around as much. For towing, I want them even lower when backing, and even higher and wider on the freeway to clear blind spots.
Yeah, I might go more than a month without touching either the seats or the mirrors at all. But, I might also be adjusting both a dozen times in a single trip.
I’ve adjusted mine twice in the last month alone because I needed to fold down the rear seats. But also sometimes you borrow your car to someone who doesn’t have a memory setting. Or your car doesn’t have memory seats and has multiple users.
If I have to use a touchscreen to adjust my seat once a month, that’s 11 times a year too much for me. Buttons? Fine. Levers and wheels like in old cars? Also fine.
We share it with other people. I, personally, would just ban short people, but they do exist and they love to move the seat away from my sweet spot.
If I had to use the touchscreen to fix it every time, I’d just leave it in a ditch and set it on fire.
Adjusting mirrors and seats can go on the touch screen as you do that before the drive and I don’t think those can stay at the factory.
I think it’s hilarious the people waxing poetic about how dangerous it is to use touch screens while driving are downvoting you because they’re adjusting mirrors while driving.
Mazda. They’ve brought back physical buttons and have support for CarPlay if you want it.
I’ve also heard they are decent cars, at this point I’ll just keep driving what I’ve got and hope that in a couple years, more manufacturers will return to making most things controllable by physical buttons.
Get a 2004-2009 car, yank the stereo out and throw an aftermarket headunit with android/carplay in. Best of both worlds!
Ugh one of our cars needs a new head unit, as its mid-2000s aftermarket unit has gone bad. But I can only get the dang thing halfway out. I can’t even get to seeing the wires in the back. No idea how it was put in, but it seems the wires are too short, maybe I have to remove the whole dashboard front thing?
2010-2012 will work as well if no tech package. My 2010 Lexus RX350 has no touchscreen, but still has knobs and a backup camera on the back mirror. It’s wonderful.
No. 9 but for media volume, touch controls are garbage and gestures are even more garbage.
Looking at you, VAG.
A special place in hell is reserved for whoever the hell keeps putting capacitive buttons on cars, ESPECIALLY when they put them on the steering wheel!
Oh yeah those shitty VAG touch controls. Went to a customer with my employee in summer. When returning home we opened the sunroof to cool the car down quickly. Couldn’t close that mf for 10kms on the autobahn until everything cooled down. Absolutely horrible.
When returning home we opened the sunroof to cool the car down quickly
Wouldn’t AC cool it down quicker? And more efficiently at autobahn speeds anyway, drag is worse than running AC at speed.
I don’t disagree with you on the horribleness of the controls though. Worst part is, MB has gone the same route. I’ve got the last generation with physical HVAC buttons. I have no idea what my next car will be, but apparently Mercedes doesn’t want me to buy their cars anymore. Mazda has come out as anti-touchscreen, which I admire, but it’s going to be a hell of an adjustment in terms of suspension and drivetrain comfort.
The plan was to let the heat out for a couple of seconds until the ac was cooled down 😉
Had a Mazda in the past and driving a Honda now. The Japanese cars are often conservative and not as fancy as the European ones but usually they just work in my experience. They are often cheaper and maintenance is also cheaper. My 320HP Civic Type-R has the same maintenance costs then our Fiat Tipo with 120HP. Performance wise it was comparable to a A45 AMG which cost twice as much with maintenance costs about 2-3x of the Honda.
Mazda may be a smaller car brand but their combustion engines are often very innovative.
I mostly drive slightly bigger cars. So while I’m fairly sure the Japanese will beat the A-class in just about every metric, but they don’t really have a good answer for C-class and above - outside of maybe Lexus, but a 3 year old Lexus is way more expensive than a 3 year old Mercedes. I buy my cars after a few years of depreciation, so I actually like the fact that German cars depreciate a lot in their first few years. But then Lexus doesn’t really have good diesel engines like the Germans do, so fuel consumption differences alone will add up a lot.
To be clear, I don’t really need or want any of the fancy features (aside from Carplay, which is starting to be ubiquitous), but just the suspension setup alone between a C-class and a Toyota Camry is vastly different. The 9 speed auto box is also excellent, to the point that I don’t even feel like I’m driving a tiny 2 liter diesel with only 190HP.
No. 9 but for media volume
Thankfully, all cars I’ve driven that had a touch screen also had some media buttons on the steering wheel. I’d prefer to have good old physical buttons in the center console, but at least you didn’t have to use the touch screen.
Buttons on the wheel are better than a touchscreen, but they suffer from being all backwards sometimes, as you use the wheel for it’s intended purpose. The old Peugeots had this thing behind the wheel, you can controll the radio with, using just 2 fingers, without looking. It’s the peak user experience. Nothing will ever beat it. I feel a suden urge to buy a beer for whoever came up with it.
French cars regularly had sometimes strange looking but often quite useful quirks.
…who tf…which car maker has gestures? If you’re gonna gesture how about you gesture your damn hand over to the button?
I think mostly VAG (VW-owned brands) and BMW, maybe Mercedes as well. VAG uses them to sense your hand approaching the touchscreen to hide additional items “when you don’t need them”, BMW uses full-on hand waving to navigate menus.
Dont worry.
They will make it all voice controlled in the future!
"Alexa, take me Starbucks and play latest episode of “Ow, My Balls”.
Why 10? It’s not like you do that while driving.
Thing is every knob saved saves time and money during manufacturing. So the companies want to put as much as they can on the touch screen. I don’t mind if they do that with things I do before driving, I mind a lot if it’s something I have to do during the drive.
Yeah they do it to save money, and then charge you out the ass for “oOh LoOk ItS tHe FuTuRe”
Well prices should come down once competition from the Chinese manufacturers picks up. Hopefully at least.
In China you can get a VW ID.3 for 15000€ and a Tesla model 3 for 30.000€.
In China, you can get a VW ID.3 manufactured by a state-owned and subsidized company in China. The same is true for the Tesla Model 3.
Basically, the Chinese government is subsidizing electric car (and battery) production (and enforcing domestic protectionist policies) so of course the same version of the car is cheaper in China. The US goes with a different approach, by providing tax write-offs to people who purchase electric cars which is vastly less efficient (and more expensive to US taxpayers).
China hasn’t subsidized the EV industry in years. Don’t believe everything you hear from your 60 year old neighbour.
The fact is batteries have come down in price so much that that price of the car is absolutely economically viable. They are just milking us for all we are worth in the west.
Why 10? It’s not like you do that while driving.
Thing is every knob saved saves time and money during manufacturing. So the companies want to put as much as they can on the touch screen. I don’t mind if they do that with things I do before driving, I mind a lot if it’s something I have to do during the drive.
Fuck cars
Your kink is not my kink, but your kink is okay.
Gotta get the cussy.
Agree… but I live in America… so there’s basically no reasonable alternative
Yeah, I hear you. I wish I had better bike infrastructure and a decent rail system in my city.
Bitch I biked across this fucking continent. You have choices. Your fucking lazy.
Oh, for those carefree days. But someday if you have a house and a family to support, you’ll quickly find the difference between being lazy and being exhausted by your responsibilities.
I would love to take a month off and bike across the continent. That sounds incredibly lazy to me.
No shit, I barely have time to ride my bike around the neighborhood after work before making dinner, let alone for a month at a time.
That’s not the point, high-speed. You have options. Your legs work fine.
yeah no one ever bikes anywhere ever and its all just grown men in spandex out for a joy ride.
Yes, a month to bike across the county was awesome! I’m sure you’re just the fittest little tiger ever and doing 80 miles a day is easy-peasy!
Bitch I work in the trades.
You want me strap a condenser, furnace, A coil, 50 feet of line set, and 100 pounds of tools and supplies to a bicycle, and then tell my customers I can only see 2 of them a day because I’m gonna bike from each house and back to the shop for each call?
Sounds like a letter U problem.
Sometimes people don’t want to bike 2h each day to get to work and back, especially if you live in the desert…
Here’s an idea: don’t live in a desert.
I have been saying this for years. The last thing your car should do is take your eyes off the road. This is a 1-3 ton box of metal hurdling at 60+ miles down the highway next to a bunch of other metal boxes that can all kill each other.
And car manufacturers seem to be in love with the idea of you forgetting you’re even driving. Add on all the bs lane assisting, warning bells, alerts, automatic correction, and the driver is convinced that the car will protect them.
These are all systems built on software. Last time I checked, that shit has never been reliable. If the software fails, the manufacturer can just hide behind “They weren’t paying attention!”
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT. I don’t know what I’m going to do when all the cars from before touchscreens and digital gauges are no longer running or affordable because I hate the idea of having to look at a screen to change volume or turn on the AC.
Modern cars can suck a fuck.
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT
Remember when a self-driving car killed someone walking their bike in Arizona, while the car’s “handler” was watching a movie on their tablet?
Yeah, the employee should have been paying attention, but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself. That’s why commercial transport drivers have mandated breaks and why two pilots are in charge of an airplane at a time.
To be clear, I am in favour of self-driving cars and don’t think they need to be perfect, just better than the average human, but the companies training them need to have standards that are both realistic and safe.
but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself.
It wasn’t an 8 hour shift and watching the car was the actual job, come on! The driver was the tester. They were testing a system which wasn’t yet ready to go untested. The accident is entirely the fault of the driver in that case.
And it’s not like their reflexes were slower because of boredom. No. They were not paying any attention at all. They were watching a video. That is gross negligence and not the fault of the car or of the manufacturer.
They were testing. While it almost certainly wasn’t explicit, they were also testing the worst self-driving car operators. And human nature. Yes, it was their job and they should have been paying close attention every second. But if they were… Is it possible a worse (less-safe) self-driving car would have made it to market? I think fatalities from self-driving cars are going to happen regardless, whether during or after the testing process, and I also think that’s horrible…
But if they were… Is it possible a worse (less-safe) self-driving car would have made it to market?
The purpose of the testing was to make sure that good products made it to the market. Events like these which are human error have created bad press and have set the concept back by years. And these are not years of research, no. These are years in which the projects have been put on the back burner and we’re getting small increments like lane assist which are bad (as in poor quality) most of the time and give users the false feeling that they have a self driving car.
I think fatalities from self-driving cars are going to happen regardless, whether during or after the testing process, and I also think that’s horrible…
I don’t think that’s the correct way to look at it. Accidents will happen. It is impossible to prevent all of them. But the total number of fatalities would go down dramatically if self driving cars would be more present on the roads and that is a huge win.
42,795 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in US alone in 2022. I think that even with the current technology, this number would still be reduced by half and that is a huge win.
The purpose of the testing was to make sure that good products made it to the market.
No, the purpose of testing is to make sure profitable products make it to market. Even the most good-intentioned company (do they exist?) has their priorities set by shareholders.
For example, airlines have a set price they will pay the families of people killed by them. Is it moral? Is it ethical? No. It is financial. What can they offer, without having to enact costly behavior and safety overhauls…
What can they offer, without having to enact costly behavior and safety overhauls…
Flying is the safest, most regulated, way of travel. There are virtually no accidents because of these regulations. Why would there be a need for an overhaul?
I mean, these things are going to happen. But that person was attempting to cross 5 lines of traffic after crossing 2 just before. It’s a terrible idea to try that. Here is a picture: https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2018/03/20/self-driving-uber-death/7ed17129da41763ed1c6f0bf194fa32d10bda7dc/accident-diagram-1050.png
The driver also ignored safety instructions. You can only plan for so much. Let’s say you put two drivers in the car. They could both be watching the movie and not paying attention. I have no sympathy for the driver being “bored”. I used to have a long boring commute. I listened to audio books and podcasts. I did not fiddle with my phone or watch movies. If you pilot a veihicle with autonomous driving or not pay attention. Most people can handle that just driving themselves around. This person had it as a job. No excuse.
I’ll note that you were actually doing something during that long, boring commute - you were driving the car (I assume). In the other case, the person wasn’t doing anything at all and had nothing to focus on…that’s MUCH harder.
I’d argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
Fucking touch screens for HVAC and audio controls are a menace though. How do regulatory agencies allow this?
Then there’s the fucking warning message not to look at your screen that starts every time I turn it on. 90% of the time I am not looking at the screen, so I don’t realize I have to click through their warning message until I’m already driving. All they achieved is distracting me and making me look away from the road.
I was in a wreck three weeks ago that may have been avoided if I had not needed to look back and check my blindspot. I made damn sure that my new car had blindspot monitoring. 360° cameras is a bit much but just that little bit of tech can make a big difference.
I’d argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
Not in our Mazda. Frequent false alarms (and in that time, not a single “real” alarm triggered), a nails-on-a-chalkboard sound that irritates me every time I hear it, and the lane “assist” feature likes to steer me back toward obstacles I was trying to avoid, like cyclists, animals, large potholes, oversized loads…
I would like to see the statistics that demonstrate that that technology is reducing crashes and/or reducing the severity of crashes. Because I know ours has trained me to ignore that alarm. I haven’t asked many people, but a few people I know have turned the alarms off.
My wife’s old Volt would beep at fucking everything. Parallel parked and backing up? You’d think the car was about to explode. Put in drive with enough room to pull out? Same.
Really cemented my desire to drive my old beater into the ground.
I don’t understand why some cars have these warnings and not others? I drive a Tesla Model S 2014. I never get any annoying warnings or distractions that pop up. My dad drives a Audi Q4 Sportback. It has an annoying popup every time you start the car and will also randomly notify you about stuff that you do not really care about while driving? My mothers old Subaru also has a popup every time you start the car that you have to press okay on just to use the fucking radio. So you can’t get in and go you have to wait for it to display it’s shitty little warning. Then press go, then start driving. And this is on old diesel. So it’s not like this is new.
I understand not everyone wants a touchscreen / large display in their car but coming from a Kia Sportage 2012, I am very happy in the Tesla, even if it ment losing some buttons. Most things are controlled with the buttons on the steering wheel.
I find it stupid as hell that there are conditionary alerts and changed UI when in “car” mode on phone apps, as well as Bluetooth pairing being disabled while driving.
I get it, they want you to not use the apps while driving. But you know what’s even more distracting than messing with a device while driving? Trying to troubleshoot unexpected UXs while driving
Not to mention that passengers exist. Convincing my friend to pull over and put the car in park so I can be navigator and DJ for our little road trip was certainly more distracting than just having an open and predictable UX
I was driving with Waze once, on the highway but first gear like 10km/h because trafic. A popup came and I wanted to discard it because I was nearly at my turn and didn’t want to lose it so I pushed the cross. By the small time I spent doing this, I was already going sideways off my lane.
Lesson learned. Next time it happens I’d rather stay in my lane and take the next exit. But fk the people putting Ads in my car. Let me focus.
Oh, please, tell me, otacon239, how exactly does one suck a fuck?
I’m a techie at heart.
But the only thing my car needs to do is act as a Bluetooth speaker/mic for my phone, and have a wireless charging mount.
When I need to use the phone for GPS/etc it goes on the mount.
When I turn on my car it connects to my phone over Bluetooth and starts playing music. Even if it’s in my pocket (shorter trips)
It works, it’s fast, it’s simple.
I’m not a big fan of too much tech in cars, I hate touchscreen climate controls, and I still drive a manual transmission; but using Android auto with maps and Spotify has been amazing. And the wireless mostly works most of the time.
I have the Motorla wireless adaptor and it would be hard to go back. Works every time. Never have to take my phone out of my pocket… only downside is it uses a moderate amount of battery, but for a 20 min commute it’s a non issue.
The irony is all these fancy head units wait until you pull out of the driveway and then throw up a big on screen warning about distracted driving. That you then have to take your eyes off the road to dismiss by pressing OK.
It would be nice if there was a spot provided for a mount that didn’t require some stupid vent clip or suction cup. A standard that would allow us to use a smartphone or tablet and maybe even leave one in the car (outside chance).
when I got my current car, it had a stupid, dumb radio with a cd deck. I installed a cheap double dim with a touch screen on it and asked if they could replace the ashtray/powersocket thing. The piece they had that fit under the cover/door had a USB hub/charging station that I could drop a stack of phones in (including one connected to carplay/android auto on the new deck.)
that was worth the $20 to install it.
That would be awesome to have as an option in my car. Instead I get to use a window suction cup or (what I chose) replace the factory radio with a double din aftermarket head unit with CarPlay. I like CarPlay but would never want to have to rely on it for things like climate control or other similar functions. As a music player and GPS I love it. I hear great things about android auto as well.
Yup. My car is old enough it has physical buttons for the enviro and stuff. The only virtual buttons control the entertainment deck itself.
I just bought a 2023 Accord and all the actual car controls are still physical. The screen shows me my rear camera and CarPlay, I control everything else with knobs and buttons. So separating the important-to-operate-without-looking controls and the touch screen isn’t quite dead yet.
I was just thinking of that the other day. They could probably get it to look pretty natural if they tried.
Good for you. I love getting in the car that is cool on a hot summers day because I activated the climate control from my phone 5 minutes before leaving or having a nice toasty warm car on a freezing winter day. I enjoy telling my car I want to go to an address I have not been at before and it navigates me there without having to press more than one button or inputting an address. I then enjoy a huge nice map both in the center cluster and a big display that shows a large map so I don’t have to squint at my relatively small phone on a mount. I enjoy telling my car what I want to listen to and it plays that music. I enjoy not putting getting my phone out of my pants pocked and into a mount. Especially for shorter rides. I also especially enjoy not having my car in for oil changes, not having to stop for gas, the car having a full “tank” every morning and other such comforts.
The car has it’s own spotify account which for me is great, because I listen to different types of music when driving compared to when I am using my phone at work or in the gym. Music services working the way they do these days it means it will suggest more great driving music when in the car and not music that is similar to what I listen to in the gym. If I want to listen to that the phone is of course connected to bluetooth and is just a input change away.
I hope you can continue enjoying your type of desired driving experience. But realize there are other perspectives. I am also a techie at home and at work ( Cloud IT-consultant, previously Systems Architecht, previously Technician ). I also do minor work such as changing headlights, filters, and 12-volt batteries myself. I know how to change oil on a car and do some simple home improvement stuff such as simple carpentry and putting in new flooring. But when I get in my car I just want it to be in the background and don’t be in the way. Just get in and go. Being in a Tesla is where I am happiest for now.
When the features are actually anti-features making you pay subscription fees for things that are already part of the car, and everything is buggy as hell, of course no one wants it.
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If you can’t figure out how to put all the extra stuff in the console as a knob or button then it probably doesn’t belong there, or isn’t wanted in the first place.
The mindless march for ever-more pointless tech in cars has pushed me into getting into classic cars more and more. Hopping into a old car is such a transformative experience. My smartphone connected through Blutooth into the stereo system is the most advanced thing in the car. The windows are huge and visibility is amazing. The ride is smooth and very forgiving. I can actually feel what the road is like because there aren’t 10 layers of computers and electronics between the steering wheel and the tires.
Nowadays, all these companies are doing is trying to use technology to solve a problem created by technology to begin with. I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines. I don’t need a sensor to remind me to look at the road, if the driving experience wasn’t so goddamn boring and devoid of fun and excitement to begin with.
I simply don’t need more shit in my cars.
Good strategy! I currently own 5 cars; 91, 93, 97, 09, and 11 (and the last two are a utility van and a base model hatchback with no electronics).
I had a job in college working on information security for automotive systems. I’m actually pretty good at fixing cars with electronics, but the DRM where you have to go back to the manufacturer is too far for me. If I can’t fix it with what’s in my garage, I’m not interested.
It’s also more eco-friendly than constantly scrapping/upgrading cars.
I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines.
While I agree with your earlier point on more technology not always being good, I disagree on the point of sensors and cameras. A backup-camera and sensor can tell me about approaching cars that I’m not aware of/cannot see physically. Additionally, I’ll take extra reminders of cars when switching lanes at highway speeds.
Yeah exactly, tech should only be in the form of safety measures like proximity alerts, lane stabilizing if you drift, cameras, etc. It’s when they complicate basic controls like HVAC, radio, seats, mirrors, etc that pisses me off. That’s not even starting to talk about other paywalls like a subscription for heated seats or whatever; also didn’t I just read that Mercedes requires a yearly subscription if you want to fully accelerate your vehicle?
I have been unlucky enough to drive behind a person on the way home for the past 3 days who does not look when she moves to another lane. She just moves. There has been a car directly to her left, and she just fuckin slides right on over.
These are the people I want cameras and sensors for. These people out here (America) in these giant ass cars feel so protected in them they just stop caring. If we can’t get them to stop being stupid I will have to depend on technology. I don’t want to depend on technology but here we are.
In a classic car with thin pillars between the windows and lots more glass, you don’t need the sensors because you can actually see well.
I use rental cars quite often. There’s so much garbage in newer cars. Why is there something trying to control my steering wheel, seriously who thought that was a good idea. Also nothing is tactile responsive anymore. It’s like being sold a bloat ware filled phone where you can only use garbage native apps. They made it so much more dangerous.
The Polestar by Volvo is absolutely going to convince someone to never touch an EV again. Not because of the charging, that was fine. But oh my god the interior design and the UX of their infotainment is among the worst I have ever had to tolerate. I wanted to drive the car into the ocean.
It’s still better to drive than a tesla, but I agree that the Polestar UX is crap.
The more features the more they can charge. The more features the more things there are to break. The more there is to break the more the dealers make fixing things.
I want to replace my truck with an electric one. But no one is making bare bones electric vehicles. My current truck has an AM/FM stereo and HVAC. Those are it’s only features and I’m fine with that. I use a FM Bluetooth adapter in my cigarette lighter. If it dies I can replace it myself for $20. My phone does the GPS. There will never be an electric vehicle that basic. And Trucks keep getting shorter beds that are higher off the ground. I need to be able to sling drywall and plywood into the top of my bed. That gets harder and harder as the bed gets taller.
I’m driving a 2004 with a broken antenna (no radio). All I want in my next car is a good mount for my phone and Bluetooth speakers / mic.
My 2017 van is surprisingly good with CarPlay. So I could go that route.
I really don’t want to deal with any of the car manufacturers software.
I have a 2001 VW TDi, the radio is a standard Double Din so I just replaced it with a touchscreen bluetooth receiver for around $150.
Ugh, I would kill for a small truck. I don’t need a truck I have to use a ladder to climb into with a bed that’s 4 feet long because the extended cab takes up the rest of the space. I love my 11 year old RAV4, but I would consider buying something new if small trucks actually existed anymore. Or, yeah, an electric car that wasn’t full of useless tech. I love tech, in it’s proper place, but my car is not it.
I just gave up my 91 Mazda B2200 and bought a Crosstrek and a trailer. What is the point of a four or five foot box? I don’t get it.
The trailer has the length and is nice and low for loading. The crazy thing is that I now see people with $100,000 pickup trucks towing trailers like mine. Insane.
There won’t be ANY car made that basic from this point on, though. Electric or not isn’t a factor.
In the US at least, backup cameras are required, so immediately you have a screen and a computer driving it. Adding in things like Bluetooth, gps, and phone interfaces are almost free at that point. It’s kind of like how power windows are just standard on everything too.
I sure do miss my old 2001 F150
Just give me a screen for Android auto and that alone. Everything else should be knobs, especially climate controls
I don’t know about that. I love the navigation system from my KIA, in my opinion it’s far superior to google maps. I even can set the destination remotely via the KIA app, so I don’t need to fiddle around once I’m in the car.
Moving parts cost money and wear out.
And if there’s one thing the auto manufacturers are good at, it’s cutting costs.
Maybe they could remove the engine and gearbox with all their moving parts…
Touch screens break and wear too, and it’s more expensive to replace a touch screen than an AC fan knob.
Unless it happens during warranty, that costs money to the user not the manufacturer.
I don’t give a shit about the bells and whistles they’re adding to cars and the infotainment systems. I am absolutely LIVID that they are starting to lock bits of hardware (or the complete functionality of that hardware) behind subscription paywalls. If i ever buy a car and discover they’ve locked the heated seats behind a monthly fee, i’m tearing the infotainment system out of the fucking dash and leaving it on fire in front of the dealers house.
In the future I can totally see black market auto shops that specialize in bypassing all the bullshit paywalls that restrict your car from functioning the way it should to begin with.
There already are: I’ve bought a regular remote start (the car came with subscription cellular remote start) and a little box to make my auto start-stop setting persistent.
I checked into those things before buying. I guess that’s the world we’re in now.
Yup. I worked as a locksmith for a decade there that reproduced immobilizer keys that were ‘dealer only.’ My tool allow me do all sorts of wild shit that was outside my field of interest – but resetting/setting the door panels on Fords was super nifty.
…useless tech
Oh, it is “useful”; to the real ‘owners’ of “your” car…
Yup. I’m in Automotive, I work for a company that makes software for basically any car brand you can think of. I just recently left an internally developed project that aimed to create a personal assistant in the car. It was terribly ran and will go nowhere, but other departments in other companies will probably have more success, especially since the rise of chatgpt.
To add to your point though - the main idea on how to sell this assistant to car makers was the features, but the driving force behind developing the project was customer data. Collect a huge amount of info from customers, info that is shared with the car brand, but also accessible to us. To give some credit, discussions were never about using it for evil purposes - imagine a secretary knowing their boss’ schedule, our software would make suggestions like “you can’t make your 1 PM luch appointment with the client, would you like to reschedule it” and “I see you’re headed to Chicago and will arrive in 2 hours, should I make a reservation at that restaurant you like?” or some shit like that. But we all know that it’s not the engineers who decide what the company does with the data once access to that data exists. And knowing where a user eats, having access to their calendar, having access to their phone… This shit can get out of hand so easily when a budget-oriented executive type decides it’s time for this project to be even more profitable by selling the data to advertisers.
Last I heard before I left, the plan was to “get consent” to process this data through a disclaimer when booting the car’s infotainment system, saying that attached devices share data with our servers etc. Read the manuals, ToS and pop-ups and don’t connect your devices to systems that do this. You’re already the client when buying a car worth thousands of dollars. Don’t also be the product.
such bullshit. how can engineers not let this happen?
Unfortunately I think engineers, as employees of a company, don’t have a lot of power. You aren’t typically the one making feature decisions. You can always try to talk product people out of bad ideas, but at some point if you refuse to do what you’ve been told to, you lose your job. Some engineers are in a financial position to take that high road, but a lot aren’t. And then even if you do quit, there will always be someone else willing to do what you aren’t.
I think as long as there is money in doing unethical (but legal) things, those things will continue to happen
so this is why i think that reasonable engineers (and most actual engineers are reasonable, hence being an “engineer”) should get together and make good stuff. stuff that is not corrupted by perverse incentives. an engineer is capable of understanding the flaws of an economy and how that can be detrimental to the functionality of some tool or system.
unfortunately as long as they’re still subject to the whims of global capitalism, they will never be free from perverse incentives
subject to the whims of global capitalism
so how can we make that not be the case? this is what engineers and innovators are thinking about. we are thinking about what the next system will be and planning how to get there.
systemic change is required, that’s for sure. as to the how of that? fucked if i know tbh
What boils my blood is infotainment systems with icons and functionality for premium services that you can’t hide or remove. It wastes space and it’s just evil. I rented a Toyota Rav4 in Florida and I swear 1/4 of the front screen was for some satellite radio service that wasn’t enabled.
Blank switches in vehicles has been a thing for 50 years.
I’d say the problem is really the lack of tactile feedback. A touchscreen requires your eyes to use, while a dial with blanks just requires your touch to skip past the blanks. It’s not impossible to memorize how many services to skip past, just made worse.
I have a 2009 Mazda 3 with Bluetooth connectivity and steering wheel button activated voice commands to make calls, configure the phone book and connections etc. This was the sweet spot for technology in cars in my opinion. Oh but the best part is all the dials and LCD clock are all in red light which is wonderful when driving at night.
Everything else I do via voice commands on my smartphone that’s mounted on a phone mount on my dash. Like asking for GPS navigation, playing music, sending text messages.
Nowadays the car infotainment system is trying to reproduce what your smartphone already does with controls that are less intuitive.
Also, what’s the deal with all the bright white and neon blue colors lighting up everything? Can I get a red filter for night driving maybe? Is that so hard to ask?
I have the 2018 Mazda 3, and Mazda is actually still one of the better companies when it comes to the infotainment stuff. No touch screen, and the controls are in the center console, where they’re super easy to reach.
I don’t know for sure about the 3, but the CX5 and CX9 definitely have touch screens but can only be used that way when stopped. The 2018 Mazda3 smart start guide says it also works that way. My wife didn’t even realize she had a touch screen until I showed her. I had an Infiniti with touch screen and knobs and I only used the knobs, they are superior for sure.
2016 Mazda 3 does indeed have a touch screen, but not really, because like you said, can only be used when stopped. Knob control otherwise, which works fantastic.
Mazda also has some hilarious bugs in their infotainment systems. This forced people in Western Washington to the NPR station https://jalopnik.com/a-weird-radio-glitch-has-mazda-owners-stuck-listening-t-1848506850
I have a 2016 Mazda 3, and agree. I don’t want a BS touch screen. I want intuitive controls that work without me having to look at a screen. The knob control is amazing.
Yeah my 2011 BMW has Bluetooth for calls/music streaming, and a navigation system that I can split screen so I’ve got a mini map showing the names of upcoming cross streets next to my music info. It’s pretty much all I need and works great.
how much money does your car typically take to repair and how often?
I guess I like the idea of having tech in my vehicle, but it doesn’t work right. I’ve found so many flaws in the software that can’t be remedied. It’s not designed with user control/customization as the main priority. Furthermore, it’s tied to main functionality of the vehicle which is restrictive in what it allows you to do upgrade wise.
As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
What would be ideal in my world is open, user focused technology, upgradeable and repairable, and not this proprietary bullshit that we currently have. This is not intelligent design.
Also, while I’m thinking about it, it’s bullshit that we are forced into these operating systems. Uconnect is garbage. Just give me stock android, with the ability to do what I want to with the hardware in the way that I see fit. The responsibility, freedom, and trust of the consumer has been predetermined. I don’t like that.
As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
Exactly! I can have the system I want but having it somehow means no heated seats in the winter.
I’ve never had a car with a touch screen or whatever fancy centre panel - but I have scrapped old cars because the ECU decided that there was an airbag fault which was not resolved with a new airbag. I’m a full time sysadmin/developer - my car does not need a computer to go, and if it must have one, it shouldn’t be a brick covered in epoxy.
I somewhat long to return to dumb electromechanical components like distributors, rather than unimaginably expensive, irreparable, interdependent systems.
#RightToRepair
The battle against requiring a computer for your car to run was lost over 30 years ago. It’s just been gradual expansion since then.
A computer running the car isn’t inherently bad. Direct injection with a computer running the show is very efficient for fuel usage. But at that point for commuter vehicles they might as well be electric motors
My 1991 4Runner doesn’t even have a diagnostic port (pre OBDII), but you can get it to tell you what it thinks is wrong.
To do this, you need to use a paperclip to jump two terminals in a box under the hood, then turn the ignition to ON, count the number of times the check engine light blinks, write that down, then look up what that code means, in a book.
(Granted, the book is a PDF these days, but still)
This is exactly the reason why they do it. They can put a hidden countdown or just outright brick your vehicle over the air and you can’t really prove they did.
As a sysadmin/dev you should know its not a computers = bad situation. It’s God awful system implementation, trash software, trash components, and even worse redundancies.
It’s like you’re saying “why use email, when i can send a physical letter” in some aspects
But I agree these manufacturers produce shit products in the form of vehicle electronics.
