- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
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It is worth understanding that this is “different” than… all the other layoffs in tech at this point.
MS acquired ABK. Any acquisition almost always leads to “downsizing”. At a high level: ABK would have had their own payroll department. Now they go through MS payroll. Why do you need an entire department whose job is now superfluous? Obviously this gets a LOT more complex with developers and the like (as well as local management) but that is the mindset.
But… holy fucking shit that is a lot of people getting laid off at one of the worst times to be unemployed in “tech” in the past decade.
It is indeed a lot of people. A quick search says ABK employed 17,000 people. Laying over over 10% of your workforce is… intense, to say the least. Though, how much of that 1,900 is just from ABK is hard to say, so the percentage could be lower.
You’re right though; HR, payroll, legal, and social media/PR departments would definitely be among the first on the chopping block, depending on how much MS wants to integrate ABK into their existing departments.
Finance too. They’re almost always first from the multiple I’ve personally been through. The new owners want those hands out of the pot asap.
Also considering the apparent toxicity of certain Blizzard employees it’s probably a good opportunity to “purge” the Kotic gang and his following.
So that’s a dozen people. 1900 is more than a hundred times that. (#mathFTW)
These cuts will seriously hurt product.
Also, I sense my less-than-new windows version will be unsupported; and I only had it so the one game ran better.
Blizzard Products were polished turds.
They need a huge cultural shift and I’m all for it.
Oh it’s ok since competition is getting killed too. See you soon at the bottom of the barrel.
Hence why acquisitions need more scrutiny. It literally kills jobs.
In this case, it kills unproductive jobs. Payroll people are necessary but at the end of the day, they don’t produce anything you would want to buy. This means that if you keep more administrative jobds than you need, there will be fewer actuall things to go around. Hence everyone will be poorer on average (or realistically speaking, the rich will be poorer in the current system, but that is a different issue).
Anyway, keeping unproductive jobds to reduce unenployment is a dumb idea and is one of the main reason why communism sucked so much.
I have a better idea. Fire the whole payroll division and hire just one accountant. Since clearly, clearly, any number of payroll employees can sustain any company size, this is the most cost efficient way to go.
Oh you say one staff in payroll is not enough? Oh then I miss your point.
How about you take your strawman argument somewhere else? I never said you need just one. But the company clearly did not need as many, if they were able to let them go. Economy of scale I guess.
Yeah, it’s brutal out there right now. Reminds me of 2008 or 2000.
Similar to 2008 but the 1% found out a way to keep their wealth intact while still fucking everyone else over.
In 2008, those responsible got the rest of us to bail them out and give billions in bonuses.
There should be some sort of law that hits exec’s options, RSUs and bonuses if their financial for a business division aren’t total trash. Example, eBay, which grew and still laid people off.
That said, this one I kind of get. Mergers and acquisitions create literal redundancies. You end up with duplicates of people and departments.
Corporate can’t see the difference
Yeah, I’m a bit skeptical that this is just about “downsizing” or eliminating redundant positions after the acquisition. Based on what I’ve seen on Twitter, a lot of junior, middle, and senior level positions were victims of these cuts, across a ton of different departments. Animators, artists, developers, no one was safe. Apparently like the entire Overwatch lore team was cut - you can’t tell me that team has any overlap whatsoever with any existing Microsoft employees.
That gets into the mess of what the reality of “gaming” is. Most people will acknowledge that Call of Duty and… uhm… Halo? Sure, let’s go with that. CoD and Halo compete. They are both games in a similar genre. Same with the hilarity of Horizon Zero Dawn meaning that a critically acclaimed open world game is coming out.
But the reality is that CoD and Fortnite compete with Squid Game and Reacher. Breath of the Wild competes with both Elden Ring AND The World Cup. The resource is increasingly time. When people get home from work they generally aren’t saying “I am going to play three hours of video games and it will either be Battlebit or CoD”. They are saying “I have three hours so maybe I’ll watch an episode or two of Demon Slayer or I could do my dailies in Fifa?”
And, in that regard, Overwatch is an increasingly “failed” live service game with an IP that has lots almost all of its good will. Whereas Halo… Master Chief had a sweet ass? But Overwatch DOES compete with the other big live game that MS acquired alongside them… Call of Duty. And so forth.
Its all a giant mess where labor suffers. But… yeah.
This is GOOD for bitcoin!
I never want to hear “job creators” as a reason for tax breaks and special treatment again.
You’re going to hear so much more of it now that we’re cranking the unemployment rate back up again.
Plus being an election year, they gotta cycle through everything and see what sticks.
68 billion to acquire IP, but can’t afford to pay the people who make and maintain it.
Can*
Doesn’t
Cansn’t
Well, yeah.
The shareholders demanded a sacrifice. You really think any of the top brass would be affected?
They literally do 1000 times the work the devs do to justify the millions in pay and compensation, and the whole place would grind to a halt if they were affected (/s if you believe that)
Layoffs after this size of merger are pretty typical. The number of people seems high, but it might be due to Activision’s own acquisitions over the years.
First round of layoffs after a merger is consolidation of corporate administrative functions. ActiBlizz finance, accounting, HR, etc is no longer needed. Microsoft already has all those needs covered. And it wouldn’t surprise me to learn ActiBlizz had a lot of administrative bloat.
Most of the knowledge workers will be kept for now. Will be future cuts there as objectives are finalized and staff needed becomes clear.
ActiBlizz finance, accounting, HR, etc is no longer needed. Microsoft already has all those needs covered.
That’s not 1900 people, that’s like 50.
I’ve been part of these before; they cut by pay. Junior artist? You stay. Senior artist? Bye. It goes all the way down to QA. A place I used to work at had massive layoffs, and were left with a QA team of 15 whose most senior member had 6 months in the industry.
This is phase 2. Phase one was last year when they laid of 10,000. those were the finance/accounting/etc people. This is specifically the games area which at this point, according to my friends caught in said layoff, says it’s mostly seniors across all (gaming) divisions.
EDIT: To be clear to the downvoters: 1. I worked at Microsoft (gaming) 5 years ago, and was caught in one of these layoffs. 2. It won’t be areas like accounting/HR/finance because that was last year. I know people caught in these layoffs, and it’s seniors in each department.
Microsoft uses, especially in Canada, a system to bypass hiring full-time employees, which they have to do here legally after 5 years of employment every X years (I forget how many). They hire from 3rd party contractors, and then refuse to rehire you after you’ve worked 4+ years, until a six month gap has occurred and you change 3rd party vendors. They do this with over half of their employees, so their gaming division has a TINY HR department because most of the staff don’t technically work for Microsoft. I met ‘our’ HR at a meeting shortly before we were all laid off, and had never had any contact with any of them (nor anyone in payroll, etc, because that was all done by our 3rd party vendors.)
lol no. 50 might just cover ActiBlizz accounts payable department.
I work for a similar sized company now. We have around 300 just in Finance. Another nearly that many in accounting. When companies get this big they have a lot of spending and assets to track.
Then you get into Marketing, Sales, HR, etc. I’d confidently bet 90% of the 1900 roles were corporate administration. I’ve personally gone through this process multiple times. I’ve even been part of making consolidation decisions for a few of them.
Edit: What you experienced will happen. But as phase 2.
This is phase 2. Phase one was last year when they laid of 10,000. those were the finance/accounting/etc people. This is specifically the games area which at this point, according to my friends caught in said layoff, says it’s mostly seniors across all (gaming) divisions.
What you posted was at Microsoft itself. That story is from January 2023.
The ActiBlizz deal didn’t close until October 2023.
What you posted was at Microsoft itself. That story is from January 2023.
The ActiBlizz deal didn’t close until October 2023.
Agreed, and my Coder/QA/Artist/Designer friends who were laid off aren’t in Finance, HR, etc. They were all seniors in Engineering/QA/Art/Design departments.
Dude you’re so confused right now.
You’re suggesting layoffs announced today, within ActiBlizz teams, were preemptively carried out by Microsoft a year ago, 10 months before the merger closed and the ActiBlizz team was even part of Microsoft?
not a chance thats 50 people. it could be 50 HR business partners alone. that 1900 could easily be entirely backoffice positions
When such acquisitions are happening all what happens is that the stock/shares of one company (Activision/Blizzard in this example) is replaced by the stock/shares of another company (MS in this example) and the purchasing price is simply another way of discussing the stock exchange ratio. Company can have zero money to do that.
Probably because they will cut people from,small games and invest in the big Activision franchise
They acquired another company, that always means there will be a lot of redundancies between the two and they need to cut them
They hardly maintain them anymore…
a lot of these jobs are among the first where humans are being replaced by AI… it’s not likely to slow down soon…
We’re in open-season mode for AI at my day job. No one’s being replaced by AI.
It’s a great tool for code/copy generation, but it gets so much wrong that now we’re both coders and qa for bots feeding us scaffolding code.
A coworker screenshotted an AI hallucination yesterday that vomited pages of garbage into their IDE. At least today AI isn’t gonna replace programmers entirely.
The industry is at its most wealthy and yet it feels like its on fire.
Yup thats capitalism. Always need to make more money than previous year, or we have a depression… Lol.
Yeah man the communist gaming industry is absolutely booming right now.
I’m not sure you understand the words you’re using.
He meant that we only have capitalist gaming studios and no communist ones.
But it’s a flawed argument. We don’t have to choose between extreme capitalism and communism. Countries can strike a balance here if they want to. But America is the most extreme capitalist country in the world.
But it’s like… Wow, communist [whatever] in the capitalist country don’t perform well according to capitalist metrics. Shocker.
What an inane thing for them to say.
Even setting aside the complete failure of free market competition, leaving small companies to choose between failure and getting bought up.
It’s all about instilling Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt to gain from it.
Right now what they are gaining are lower overhead and when they re-hire they will be paying less for the same roles.
You don’t get rich paying a ton of people 200k. You get rich not paying them. So what you are saying is actually not a contradiction!
You don’t get rich paying a ton of people 200k.
You literally do, though. Because wealth isn’t a function of the volume of currency you’ve amassed, it is the quality of goods and services that the currency can purchase. When you’ve got a ton of highly educated people working as a team to accomplish something exceptional, what you get back is far more than what you put in.
Just ask Billie Beane, a guy who is a testament to what the upper limit of $200k/player gets you in terms of a baseball team. Yeah, you can beat the average for a little while by one exceptional administrator squeezing the system on the margins. But the only way you win that final game of the season is with a budget like what the Red Soxes or the Dodgers or Astros bring to bare.
And in that triumph, you do - in fact - get rich. You fill more stadium seats. You sell more cars or phones. You build more elaborate buildings. You send people to the bottom of the sea (without them getting crushed to death) and up to the moon.
At some point, you’ve got to put forward an investment. You can’t run an advanced economy on poverty-level wages. And if you don’t have those advances in medicine and engineering and logistics and technology, what the fuck kind of rich are you?
Do you want to pay competitive salaries in Heaven or run a robber barony in Hell?
It’s a wonderful idea but it’s just not how the gaming industry is run. The gaming industry runs more like war machine production facility.
You pay some very good people lots of money to set things up, design how things are going to go, make up some prototype work. Then you set up for production, hire on tons of people to finish all the work. Once everything is up and running and all the products are out the door you cut back to a maintenance staff while you have the very well paid, highly talented core working on the next big thing. People are dying to get into the gaming industry so bad, the job pool waxes and wains in quality a little but there’s never truly a lack of new talent when you need it.
The saving grace for the industry is live cadence games. The whole subscription side of things that we don’t really want to see as gamers keep this ebb and flow of employment from happening. You stretch your production schedule out a little longer to begin with. You don’t hire up quite so heavily and then for the life of the game you keep releasing features and options, You run events to keep people subscribing.
I like the ideas you’re proposing, It just not a method that game companies are willing to try to entertain.
People are dying to get into the gaming industry so bad, the job pool waxes and wains in quality a little but there’s never truly a lack of new talent when you need it.
This tends to be a strategy that works well when you have a lot of people in the talent pool working in smaller shops and affiliated industries, as well as lots of people exiting college with an eye towards the games industry. I think that was much truer in the '00s than it is today, if for no other reason than the market for developers generally is growing tight and people going through recruitment are going to see some enormous pay-gaps between what EA wants to offer you and what - say - Exxon or JP Morgan have on the table.
Lots of people dying to get into the industry have no business being there. Lots of people managing the industry who are good at development are retiring. There’s a core of talent that isn’t getting propagated precisely because the business is so feast-or-famine. Same thing is happening in Hollywood. And at Boeing, for that matter.
The McDouglas Model of crunch-time hiring is a great way of improving your balance sheet between quarters, but a terrible way to retain institutional knowledge or cultivate industry specific talents and skills.
The saving grace for the industry is live cadence games. The whole subscription side of things that we don’t really want to see as gamers keep this ebb and flow of employment from happening.
I mean, I think there’s a business attitude that subscriptions represent a number you can give to an actuary and say “Tell me how much money I’ll have in 10 years” with reliability. By contrast, its hard to build a long term model for a business around pre-orders and the random variable of first week sales.
At the same time, its very obvious that businesses can and do run under the “release a game / get a glut of cash / finance the next game with this income” model. It just relies on a business that plans to spend cash forward rather than one in which subscriptions are just revenues used for stock buybacks and dividends to shareholders.
What we’ve seen over the last two decades is bigger firms with loose credit looking for long-term revenue streams buying up highly recognizable brands as future income streams. Then busting them out until they’re shells of their former glory, as all the money gets drained out the back door.
I don’t really want to see talented developers working for these firms. I think that’s a genuine waste. All the folks who spent years of their lives invested in Diablo 4 are - in my mind at least - talent squandered, as the game is morphed into just another DLC/microtransaction engine.
Software engineer (luckily not in games) here. Definitely feeling it in terms of looking for a new job. Everyone’s only looking for senior engineers and they’re SUPER picky because there are so many unemployed engineers applying, even in my country where there are a lot fewer layoffs.
If you’re making money that means it could have been more money if you just paid those greedy non-executive workers less.
January hasn’t ended yet and we are at 60% of the total layoffs of last year.
Curious for a source on that
https://publish.obsidian.md/vg-layoffs/Archive/2024 not sure if this is what you’re looking for but someone has been tracking overall video game layoffs for the past 3 years. 2023 was approximately 10,600, we’re halfway there at 5600 in 2024 and it’s only been a month. That’s pretty fucked.
Lmgtfy
Game dev layoffs 2023
Take your pick of article. There are numerous to choose from, and most of them give a rough number and their sources.
Quotes a statistic
Is asked for a source
Do YoUr OwN rEsEaRcH iTs aLl ThErE oN gOoGle
I don’t have their numbers, but this isn’t the first place I’ve seen similar quoted. First one I found through some friends’ discussion was this, which puts us, at a quick glance, at around a third of last year’s total(still plenty bad).
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That’s not a source. That’s a ‘go do your research with a search and figure out what sources to look at’.
I wanted to know what they read and to read it myself.
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In Tech?
In game dev.
I don’t know where to find this sort of info but that’s crazy
Well I was wondering what the cluster fuck of 2024 would be. We had covid, Russian war, massive inflation… Now what… High unemployment?
Amazing leadership, I applaude them.
What leadership? The illuminati? God? Those things are (basically) unrelated.
I remember people on the Internet talking about the Microsoft Bethesda deal. I saw people saying that it’s “actually a good thing” and how Microsoft can contribute more to Bethesda and they’ll churn out better games for Xbox. Then I see shit like this and games like Starfield and understand why 99% of the people on the Internet have no fucking clue what they’re talking about.
Starfield was basically done with their release development when Microsoft aquired Bethesda
You think Microsoft is at fault for Starfield being mediocre? Okay
You think they’re not?
When Starfield was released Bethesda was already part of Microsoft. Sure, it was mostly done but Microsoft should have realized it was a turd and either delayed the release to rebuild the game or simply cancelled it. Instead they chose to take money from their customers for a game that is clearly not worth the asking price.
It’s worth mentioning thought that Microsoft did step in after they bought Bethesda to get the game to even run at 30fps on their consoles.
However, I very much doubt that they would have tried to compromise the vision of the game after paying premium for the company. Keep in mind that Bethesda had delivered some beloved games in the past.
The mistake was to trust them. A mistake that it looks like they don’t want to repeat with Blizzard judging by the huge amount of layoffs.
The mistake was to trust them.
I don’t buy that it was purely trust. If you’re going to spend $69 billion you have to do your due diligence. You want to know what you’re buying. I can imagine Bethesda not noticing they had a problem, they have been working on it for years and if you’re so immersed into the development it can be hard to take a step back and take a good look at what you’ve made. But Microsoft was looking at it with a fresh pair of eyes. There are only 2 options: Either the Xbox division at Microsoft is completely incompetent or they knew they had a stinker and decided to sell it anyway.
If you’re going to spend $69 billion you have to do your due diligence. You want to know what you’re buying.
They knew what they were buying - a beloved studio that has churned out tons of “classics” over the past couple decades, which has been able to sell and resell one of those classics (Skyrim) for like half a dozen different consoles.
There are only 2 options: Either the Xbox division at Microsoft is completely incompetent or they knew they had a stinker and decided to sell it anyway.
There’s actually a third option: Microsoft knew Starfield would sell, stinker or not, because Bethesda has a very loyal fanbase that will eat up anything they put out. It didn’t matter to Microsoft whether the game was good or not, they knew they’d make their money either way.
There’s actually a third option: Microsoft knew Starfield would sell, stinker or not, because Bethesda has a very loyal fanbase that will eat up anything they put out. It didn’t matter to Microsoft whether the game was good or not, they knew they’d make their money either way.
That’s just option 2 I describes, in more words. Basically, they scammed Bethesda’s loyal fans.
You buy it, you own it
Okay. Well they made sure Starfield didn’t come out on the PS5, okay. and I promise you that didn’t help their numbers at all. Okay. Okay
Ya, THAT was the problem with Starfield. That is didn’t come out in the PS5…
And please read comments more carefully next time. I did not say Microsoft was ever at fault, simply that they did not contribute anything to make Starfield better before release. Delays are a thing, but nobody thought it would be worth it to delay Starfield before release. If anything I’d bet money that Microsoft pushed the release
You’re right, you didn’t say Microsoft was at fault, you just heavily implied it. Maybe you should read your own comment again?
I did. I didn’t heavily imply it. Just that Microsoft didn’t help.
Probably not the guys with sexual assault charges though.
1900 employees, that’s something like 10 big games that won’t be released, or we can look forward to more outages and bugs in the new releases, and slower fixing of those bugs.
Thanks Microsoft for your contribution to enshittification 🏅💩
I mean, given the quality of product they’d been churning out, I don’t know if I’m going to loose sleep knowing we won’t get another Diablo Immortal or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III or Candy Crush Saga any time soon.
Like, if Larian or Nintendo was hemorrhaging talent, I’d be a bit more upset. But between these guys, EA, and Riot turning out flops… Idk, man. Maybe a shakeup that pulls people out of the Micro-transaction Factory isn’t the worst thing for the industry as a whole.
you seem to be blaming the workers for turning out flops but in general it’s the managements lack of planning and micromanagement that’s the general cause.
no one who’s a developer, artist, designer wants to add micro transactions, that comes from top down because it’s a revenue generator. they want to polish the games so they can be proud of the work, but are not given time.
executives are not the ones generally being let go and the ones that are will be cashing out from the acquisition. expect those IPs to get worse and have more enshittification because that’s what makes money and that’s all corpos care about.
you don’t get a larian studios from laying off talent, you get it from good management and giving your talent time to deliver.
you seem to be blaming the workers for turning out flops
I’m sorry if I came across that way. No. I firmly pin this on the dipshits in management.
That said, the worker bees of the gaming industry don’t get to decide what a future game looks like. If Microsoft wants Microtransactions, you’re making a game with Microtransactions whether that was what you wanted to be doing with your time or not.
These companies falling into disrepair and going into layoff mode means they aren’t giant magnets for development talent. In theory, that means fewer games with all the predatory DLC / casino mechanics crap. Smaller staffs mean fewer releases and less of the market clogged with this low effort drivel.
you don’t get a larian studios from laying off talent
Blizzard hemorrhaging talent has already produced a number of new studios. I’m sure Larian has potched talent from its competitors, particularly during the big '00 and '08 layoff waves.
It sucks for the industry as a whole. But getting people out of the old toxic employers and into younger and more ambitious studios is critical in revitalizing a stagnant industry.
Not what that word means
Just as long as one of the 1,900 is the CEO…
Narrator: “He wasn’t.”
Blizzards CEO Mike Ybarra is out “by mutual agreement”
Color me shocked. Never thought I’d see the day…
It is
My initial reaction was to laugh my ass off at the extra drop of crap in the collective cup. Upon a second take however… considering what a horrifying den of depravity ActiBlizz became during the past years, this may turn out to be for the best in the long run…
Yeah those coders and artists had it coming!
Jesse McCree ?
It’s not like it was only managers that were dirty.
Surely there was a management enabling it but it seemed widespread at Blizzard.
Now for the 99% others that lost their job for no reasons. That’s another story.
Not slighting the dismissal of those who didn’t partake, don’t get me wrong! Every situation has nuance, not denying that! I was referring to the overall culture which took root there, and from that the purely utilitarian observation that it’s easier to change the mentality if you change the people (in one way or another).
Mass layoffs is going to make it worse, not better.
It’s a good thing we didn’t raise their Taxes or Wages! Otherwise they may have fired their workers!
This stands to reason. There’s probably a ton of infrastructure headed to Azure teams, like the entire Battle.net infrastructure or what it’s called today.
I’m guessing only key executives and key creatives get to stay, while everyone else will be replaced by Microsoft alumni.
“Key Executives” seems like an oxymoron
Oh, they are.
There’s probably a ton of infrastructure headed to Azure
Blizzard net code plus unsure paas? That’s gonna end well.
They run all of Gamepass as well as all of Sony’s PS+ on Azure, I think they’ll be fine.
Azure is just architecture, like AWS.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
While Microsoft is primarily laying off roles at Activision Blizzard, some Xbox and ZeniMax employees will also be impacted by the cuts.
His influence will be felt for years to come, both directly and indirectly as Allen plans to continue mentoring young designers across the industry,” says Booty.
Booty says Microsoft will be “shifting some of the people working on it to one of several promising new projects Blizzard has in the early stages of development.”
Microsoft completed its $68.7 billion acquisition of Activision Blizzard in October, following 20 months of battles with regulators in the UK and US.
Former Activision Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick stepped down at the end of December, with Microsoft not appointing a direct replacement.
The software maker is due to report its fiscal Q2 2024 earnings next week, which, for the first time, will include results from the impact of the Activision Blizzard acquisition.
The original article contains 397 words, the summary contains 149 words. Saved 62%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This is the best I could muster this morning: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Why is it funny to see 1900 people lose their jobs? You can hate the corporations and those at the top, but I’d wager the vast majority of those laid off are just normal people trying to make a living.
It’s funny to see 1900 people lose their jobs because they stayed instead of protesting the merger. If they’re working at Microsoft/Activision/Blizzard, I promise you they don’t have any real problems in life. Many of us told people that as soon as the merger went through they were going to axe a large portion of the staff, and we got “oh no that doesn’t happen!”.
So this, just like every merger before it, was a stupid idea to let pass, and I’m glad people are suffering for it, because maybe a little introspection will do them well.
But hey, can’t really expect that much out of America, so oh well.
Protest the merger? There’s nothing they can do.
And after that do you expect them all to up and leave? Every single one? I don’t know what world you live in.
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If they had, the merger would have still happened. That’s an awful opinion and you should be embarrassed but I expect instead you’ll double down.
The FTC nearly blocked the merger without any protest from the employees. You don’t know shit.
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What a shitty thing to think.
