I fled Reddit due to the authoritarian mod craziness, but Lemmy.world seems infested with too much Communist craziness. I’m leftist, but communism is idiocy. Is there an instance that leans more democratic socialist but refrains from going off the deep end?
Actually Existing Socialism. Cuba, the PRC, Vietnam, Laos, the former USSR, etc.
Why aren’t the Haudenosaunee on that list? Isn’t that a bit racist?
Tribal societies that don’t have advanced industrialization have a separate Mode of Production from “Socialism” in the Marxian sense. No racism at all.
Yeah, but on the other hand, socialism is when the people own the means of production, and the Haudenosaunee have/had way more of that than USSR and China.
I disagree, tribal societies could only have that kind of relation by virtue of being small. In the age of modern industry, this is no longer feasible while maintaining large-scale manufacturing.
And your source is you made it the fuck up?
I don’t really know what you mean, here. Do you think we can use the same methods of small, communal tribes as organization with mass manufacturing and complex supply chains? I would argue that society changed the methods of organization to better fit the level of technological process, and not out of any individual will.
You’re parroting some racist ass noble savage bullshit right now. Tribal societies weren’t communist because they were too dumb to create advanced societies. They were communist because they were smart enough to pick the most efficient economic system in the harshest conditions. It wasn’t an accident, it was the result of millennia of hard work and careful thought. This work is universally applicable. You just don’t want to listen to brown people telling you how to run an economy.
No, that’s not my point. My point is that at the level of technological development of tribal societies, they correctly picked the most efficient organizational structures for their conditions. They were not uniquely gifted nor uniquely dumb, but real humans with human organization. Societies like the Aztecs began a form of production similar to Feudalism when that became more efficient, and it is likely that when they discovered technologies like steam engines they would have transitioned towards a form of society similar to Capitalism.
Humans organize in manners most efficient for their conditions, it isn’t about who discovers the best form of society but which form of society best suits the conditions of the land and level of productive forces.