• BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
          302·
          5 months ago

          I think a lot of conservative “Christians” think that if they pretend like they are following the way of Christ according to their bastardized version where they hate queer people, that they’ll somehow be able to declare themselves right and be able to stay the mean shits that they are. When in reality Jesus would not approve of their behaviour at all.

          Edited to add: I actually practice Christianity and go to a very progressive church. I love queer people, I think conservatives are a cancer on society, and I believe in birth control and abortion rights like I invented them. I am not wild about Jesus or the Bible, and I mostly attend because I believe in a God and I think attending a community space where we want to be better humans together in a happy and life giving way is a vital part of life. I do not in any way expect people to believe what I do and I welcome most points of view, conservative trash and Nazis excluded. I have sort of a gnostic view I guess where I think intelligence and the ability to act accordingly is what saves you as a human.

          But everything conservatives are doing religiously to me is utter self serving rotten trash.

          • jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            202·
            5 months ago

            I’m a “progressive” Christian as well. Quoting Bible verses to MAGA’s is a fun exercise. They often get this guilty looking expression for a minute and then just kind of shake it off and go back to whatever hypocritical BS they were up to before.

            It’s fascinating to watch.

          • YippieKyeAy@lemmy.world
            9·
            5 months ago

            More of the right will identify as Christian’s but the left is much closer to the teachings of Jesus because the fruits of the spirit are: love, compassion, empathy, understanding, kindness, gentleness, truthfulness, brotherhood, forbearance, faith, joy, just to name a few.

            When thinking of those “fruits” not many people think of the conservative Christian’s. It bothers me more than anything they hide behind their “beliefs” to push their personal agenda that goes directly against the teachings of Jesus. Gives Christianity a bad name, then again I would say each religion has it’s own group of extremist that make the whole look bad.

            Edit: Spelling

              • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
                1·
                4 months ago

                Give up the building and start meeting in people’s homes/apartments, coffee shops and the like. The rest only holds you back anyway. Imagine good tippers who the wait staff eagerly looks forward to returning regularly - what a reversal that would be from when “Christians” show up after “cHuRcH” and abuse them!

            • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
              41·
              5 months ago

              I am so far left I got my guns back, as the saying goes, and I believe in radical kindness and love, but to those who wish the same, which is not the right.

          • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
            102·
            5 months ago

            It’s kinda funny. I’ve been reading a bunch of historical texts about the new testament. Origin of Satan, Jesus the Jew, How Jesus Became God, Passover Plot (I really recommend this one). I was saying to myself that I’m getting to know a lot about this “book” just last night, kind of amused by it. I for sure know a lot more about the texts, the authors, and the setting in which they were written than a modern christofascist.

            The major point upon which I was meditating is the ongoing theme in these books that Jesus claimed to be the messiah, not god. And how I can’t discuss that with a modern USA-christian because they’d find it offensive. But anyway, wear a cross and hate on some queer people because that’s what Jesus would have wanted. /s

            • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
              2·
              4 months ago

              Just like the people who showed up on January 6 claiming to be “patriots”, there to “defend” - rather than overthrow by violent means - the Constitution, which many admit to never having read, so too many “christians” (ostensibly meaning “follower of”) do the precise opposite of their teachings. Of course you can’t have a rational discussion with people like this!?!? You cannot extract blood from a stone. They just don’t have it in them to be capable of that. And yes ofc you, having read the book, know better what is in it compared to someone who can’t read, or more precisely someone who refuses to.

              Whereas people of conscience, regardless of religious - including non- or even anti-religious - affiliation, can discuss pretty much anything. There are real Christians though, just look at their actions and it’s extremely easy to tell (just like there are real patriots, desperate the presence of mimics that try to claim that they are while being the polar opposite - many are dedicated civil servants and/or members of the armed forces, both of whom lay their literal life on the line, and the latter also their possible death, though non-armed forces also contribute as well).

              All that aside, there are many ways that Jesus claimed to be God. I started listing them out in my head but in looking up some scriptures to back them up (like “I and the Father are one”, John 10:29-33; plus He claimed to be able to forgive sins, which only God could do - so to the people of the time, He was being quite clear), found this article that says it a lot better than I could: https://calvarychapel.com/posts/did-jesus-claim-to-be-god/. So I hope that’s interesting.

              My controversial opinion: one day there will be stupid atheists as well. There aren’t really that many right now, bc it’s popular right now in atheism to actually examine one’s beliefs and decide for one’s own self what you believe - however, the same was once true of other religions too, before they got institutionalized, and in another hundred (or thousand) years when atheism has been passed down through enough generations, it too will become corrupted as well.

              For now, I find that people of good conscience of all religions - and again, including non- and anti-religious folks too - share a heck of a lot more in common with one another than with the non-thinking sheeple. After all, the book literally commands people who follow it to be skeptical: “Test everything against what you know to be true (aka prove it) and retain only what passes that inspection” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Also it says stuff like pay the workers their wages, kill the money lenders, don’t heap heavy burdens on others without lifting a finger to help (be ye not a Karen), don’t judge others, but do hold your own leaders to account (cough fondling little children cough, also that whole felony / insurrection / treason thing). So really, if that breed of “christian” could (sigh, rather “would”) read, they would (should) be very upset! 😭

              My advice: don’t mind them - they only matter in aggregate - just hold yourself to the higher standard that you, as a non-hypocrite, know that you must regardless. Argumentum ad populum et al.

            • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
              42·
              5 months ago

              It’s everything Jesus did not want, and that made up horseshit in Leviticus and Romans can go fuck itself.

            • mortalic@lemmy.world
              21·
              5 months ago

              This sounds like something I might want to read about, any chance you could drop some links or titles to what you’ve been reading?

          • lone_faerie@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            51·
            5 months ago

            I had a neighbor come to my door wanting to read some bible verses. I was initially combative because I’m trans and have a pride flag in my window and was ready to be preached to about how I’m a sinner. I’m not religious but we actually had a really nice conversation about exactly this. I told them that I don’t believe in Jesus but do believe in the message of the bible, being a loving and caring person to everybody, and how conservatives have completely twisted the meaning to attack people like me. They read me a couple verses supporting that and how conservatives go against everything the bible says. It really gave me hope and what I was expecting to ruin my day actually made it instead.

            • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
              4·
              5 months ago

              Honestly there’s some lovely Christians out there who love queer people without question. It absolutely does not have to be the conservative way. My church has gay people and two trans ladies, and the one time I overheard one of them talking to a bunch of the guys about the local football team. Like it absolutely does not have to mean a thing.

          • Sotuanduso@lemm.eeEnglish
            213·
            5 months ago

            Sorry if this comes off as rude, but without Christ, you’re not a Christian. Christianity is the state of being saved, and you can’t good-person your way into salvation. There are three problems with that approach:

            • If you believe you can save yourself, that’s an issue of pride. How can your living works ever compare to God’s own son dying for you?
            • If you willfully ignore Christ’s salvation (the easier option) in favor of doing good works, that shows an unwillingness to repent of your sins.
            • If you try to meet God’s standards (or even just what you think they are) through your works, you’ll never catch up, and you’ll exhaust yourself.

            Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s no point in good works or being a good person. They’re the fruits, but they’re not the tree. You can put effort into showing fruits, but without the tree, it’s not going to do you any good in the long run. Or you can grow the tree, and if it’s real, the fruits will come naturally (and if they don’t, the tree is dead[1].)

            It’s only by humility that you can come to salvation. You must recognize your sin and be willing to turn from it (and keep trying whenever you fail.) Otherwise, you’re ultimately not that different from the conservative politicians who pretend to be Christian while sticking to their hateful ways (only in your case, the ways in question might not be hateful.)

            I say this not to condemn you, but in hope that you can be saved. Please don’t ignore it.

            1. James 2:17, though on further consideration, the whole chapter is fairly relevant. ↩︎

            • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
              2·
              5 months ago

              Funny you mention this because I was about to bring it up but as a bad thing. They don’t care about Jesus or his teachings or any of that because they see the whole “all of your sins will be forgiven” as “I can do whatever I want and then just have to tell a priest about it before I die and then I get into heaven”. Why they think they can pull a fast one on a being they believe is omniscient is beyond me, best guess is maybe they have a really simplistic view of rules and think exploiting loopholes can be done in good faith?

              • Sotuanduso@lemm.eeEnglish
                3·
                5 months ago

                The Bible actually has things to say about that mindset. Namely, if you think “I can go back to sin and just get forgiven afterwards no biggie,” and then do so, you’re not going to get forgiven (Hebrews 10.) But that doesn’t get preached much, probably because it’s easy to get it twisted and think that an inadvertent slip into sin will have the same effect.

                • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
                  2·
                  4 months ago

                  The older I get, the more dangerous I see Calvinism as being. Mind you, I believe it is true, but I see why it is difficult to explain. The child-like laws, given to literal children, seem to me to be a way of gently guiding people into the deeper waters. Unfortunately some people refuse to ever grow up, not just in Christianity but in every single aspect of life. It is so much easier to just play make-believe and spare people’s feelings (namely, probably the people doing that are attempting to spare their own). We are wounded, due to the effects of sin, and then for lack of knowledge the people perish.

              • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
                1·
                4 months ago

                Studies in chimpanzees reveal that they do the same thing. It’s not even just “human nature”, it’s nature itself, pure and simple.

                We should ride above that. We won’t, but we should.:-)

            • mashbooq@lemmy.world
              21·
              5 months ago

              This is a made-up version of Christianity that didn’t exist until the last few hundred years. It’s heresy and unless you repent, you’re going to hell.

              • Sotuanduso@lemm.eeEnglish
                12·
                5 months ago

                Is 20 a few? The idea of salvation being through Christ alone is literally in the Bible. What are you talking about? I’ve repented of my sins, and belief in the Bible is not a sin.

                Are you talking Catholicism? Even then, you still have Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not of yourselves, for it is a gift of God. And this is not of works, so that no one may glory.” (CPDV) and James 2 still making it clear that faith without works is dead.

                • mashbooq@lemmy.world
                  21·
                  5 months ago

                  It’s false that your heresy has existed for 2000 years; it’s only been the last few hundred. Salvation is through the Church, not through Christ, and outside the church you’re damned. Sorry.

        • Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
          6·
          5 months ago

          Same for the rest too.

          They like trump because he’s a great “business man”. Yet he’s not.

          They like kid rock because he’s a ‘country rock rebel.’ Nahh he’s just old and stale.

          They like elon because he is a ‘genius.’ LOL no.

          They just vibing and can’t be bothered to actually give a shit.

          • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
            6·
            5 months ago

            They like kid rock because he’s a ‘country rock rebel.’ Nahh he’s just old and stale.

            I think they like him because he pretends to be working class, but the internet has shown that he was a rich kid.

        • loutr@sh.itjust.works
          61·
          5 months ago

          “Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I’m literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. That’s weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we’re in a crisis.”

        • mashbooq@lemmy.world
          1·
          5 months ago

          That’s exactly the case. Christianity follows Paul, not Jesus, and only keeps the “Christ” part for marketing

      • activ8r@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        6·
        5 months ago

        I wouldn’t have thought so either, but I bet there is a lot of spill over from Trump > Elon and a lot of Trump supporters are religious nut jobs.

    • Donjuanme@lemmy.world
      4·
      5 months ago

      I used to be a fan of kid Rock…

      It was the early 2000’s.

      I’m still down with a lot of music from that time, I’ll still rock Smash mouth, I sympathize with what happened to their lead singer, but kid Rock is entirely self inflicted and instead of the world moving on from him (like smash mouth) they have him on a pedestal. Why should anyone from my generation be on a political tour because of music they made? It pretty much all sucked. They didn’t write any of it themselves… Barely any of them even performed it live. I respect Nickelback “Rockstar” for calling this out.

    • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
      181·
      5 months ago

      I honestly think Jesus would be a little embarrassed to have people hanging on his every word and ascribing meanings to it in the form of a book report on them every Sunday that he probably didn’t mean. It’s nice to teach us how to treat others and so on, but people loudly assuring others that Jesus loves them; well I have trouble believing Jesus thinks a lot of child predators and rapists myself. And I like what Jesus taught, but I don’t think everyone in the world is salvageable.

      • CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de
        12·
        5 months ago

        I’d be curious AF what he thought about all these depictions of him as a white dude with straight, light brown hair

        • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
          8·
          5 months ago

          I suppose it’s fair to say that some of the early artists who painted him probably never saw a brown Jew, and were handed down the stories of the Bible same as anyone, and just painted what they know. I can’t fault anyone for that, but the fact that the world very much knows better now and continues with this is obnoxious.

          • EABOD25@lemm.eeEnglish
            5·
            5 months ago

            Close to the truth. The original use for a white Jesus was to express purity and divinity. From there, it just kind of snowballed…

      • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
        7·
        5 months ago

        He would probably be more annoyed at having a bunch of existing stories changed to make him the protagonist.

  • Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
    17·
    5 months ago

    Seriously Jesus. You’re a cool guy, and I know your thing is you take in the broken, but your other thing was suppose to be love. Like you said one commandment, love, and that shit is severely lacking.

    • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
      101·
      5 months ago

      I think the person Jesus actually was loved everyone, but the trouble is conservative people hate gay people and rewrote the texts to say that.

      • Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world
        13·
        5 months ago

        Yeah, Jesus, the historical figure was trying to reshape Judaism. He wanted to reform things and he wanted the focus to be on loving your brother. He got killed for it and he knew it would kill him because he was hanging out with the religious leaders.

        Then by a miracle he succeeded because he didnt have any transgressions against the temple and he followed Jewish teachings but was still setup to be crucified in the worst way imaginable.

        Then after that he was co-op’d for other purposes but his message is still true. Believing in christ is believing a man named Jesus lived and he was killed by no fault of his own but for the benefit of others.

        Being a Christian means you understand Christ’s message. Its real easy, love your brother, and you live in a way that reflects that.

        • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
          11·
          5 months ago

          And for God’s sake stop hating queer people. It’s absolutely against everything Christ teaches and is a made up bit of nonsense.

            • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.worldOP
              13·
              5 months ago

              Here is a beautiful poem about that:

              THAT’S what Jesus is, not some holy slobbering uneducated filth yelling about groomers.

              • OpenStars@discuss.onlineEnglish
                2·
                4 months ago

                Another beautiful poem about it, more specifically against everything that religious Karens conservatives stand for:

                If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

                If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

                If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

                Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

                It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

                Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

                1 Corinthians 13

                Looking at the hate and anger that they spew… how can anyone remain convinced that they are about “Christianity” aka love?

      • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
        21·
        5 months ago

        Well… A lot of their biblical evidence is less a rewrite and more of a translation issue. Take the whole Sodom and Gehmorra story about tje two angels that everyone is so keen to turn into a condemnation of the gays.

        In the OG text the words used to describe the angels were analog to genderless forms of the word “master” and because there were two of them they were always referred to by genderless they/them plural… Which is probably why there were two of them. We are probably supposed to imply the perceived gender of the angels was irrelevant to the tale.

        The first Latin and English translations off of Hebrew however used gendered terms for the two angels that coded them as male. Stuff like “Masters” “Lords” that kind of thing in large part because those societies were respectively fairly misogynistic and not primed to interpret either of the two genderless entities as possibility female coded. Then you see the anti same sex interpretation gain popularity in the case of England and France at the time they were going through a population crash via plague which caused amoung other things criminalization of same sex unions as a threat to sexual replacement of a sharply diminished population. So really we can trace this story being interpreted as God’s condemnation of the gays rather then just regular old rapists around the same time the word “sodomy” came into the lexicon in the 1300’s and the first waves of plague.

  • Emmie@lemmings.world
    193·
    5 months ago

    Why catholics hate queers so much if Jesus was into drag?
    Some questions history can’t answer.

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
      102·
      5 months ago

      Fun fact. Joseph’s coat of many colors is more accurately translated as a coat with long sleeves. That likely references an outfit made from a mother’s bridal gown and passed to the daughter.

      That is: Joseph was an effiminate youngest child who didn’t do men’s work and wore women’s clothing. He was also persecuted by his brothers for it.

      He also ended up being the de facto ruler of Egypt and savior of the Jewish people.

      • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
        21·
        5 months ago

        As fun as that fanfiction is, there is no textual evidence for the Joseph’s kitonet pasim being made from his mother’s bridal gown (especially as first marriage bridalwear was plain white cloth, something Joseph’s cloak was famous for not being.) Additionally, Joseph’s story is chronologically VERY VERY early in what wasn’t yet even Hebrew culture, so would likely bear zero resemblance to post-Canaan Hebrew culture.

        The reference to ‘long sleeves’ has to do with his brother’s jealousy at the quality and material excess of the garment. Not the source the garment was made from.

        It’s kind of bigoted of you to assume that he was gay just because his brothers picked on him.

        • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
          11·
          5 months ago

          “Pasim” probably doesn’t mean multicolored. It can also mean long-sleeved or fine-quality, and the only other place it occurs in Hebrew scripture is when it’s referring to Tamar’s robe, where it’s described as the type of clothing worn by virgin daughters.

          • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
            31·
            5 months ago

            I can see you’re emotionally invested in this because it probably empowers some aspect of your identity, so there’s really no point in continuing.

            Some day you may understand the value of seeing clearly, I encourage you to pursue that.

            • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
              11·
              5 months ago

              Dude, it’s literally what’s written in the text.

              Just because Donny Osmund wore a multicolored robe and danced on stage doesn’t mean his portrayal was accurate to the text. The New Testament also doesn’t include Charlton Heston trying to give water to Jesus at the crucifiction.

    • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
      51·
      5 months ago

      It’s easy, gays don’t make babies and the catholic church has run out of countries to convert. The only major growth for their faction is to force more people to have kids.

      So the Catholic Church and the GOP are on the same page of that playbook.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      5 months ago

      Why catholics hate queers so much

      Once you explain to a Catholic that their son/daughter can still deliver grandkids despite being queer, they come around.

  • masquenox@lemmy.world
    14·
    5 months ago

    I like how the Amazing Apartheid Boy is trying to do a Trump scowl - and it manages to look just as characteristically fake as Trump’s does.

  • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
    141·
    5 months ago

    Does Musk still have a fan base? I haven’t seen anyone speak favourably of him for a very long time.

  • BlueFootedPetey@sh.itjust.works
    9·
    5 months ago

    I mean, as a high schooler I enjoyed ba with da bah and whatever else was on that album. I still find some enjoyment in those songs, but I think it’s mostly nostalgia.

    Not sure what my point is. Shame he’s a conservative piece of shit. As an adult I’m not exactly surprised.