I’ve been using Tutanota for a while now. Been interested in people’s opinions about Tutanota and Protonmail.
Tutanota doesn’t share their security audits, which Proton does.
Also, IIRC Tutanota uses their own custom encryption implementation, while Proton contributes to open source OpenPGP projects.
And when in the past the the Swiss gov ordered Proton to do some limited tracking for a specific user, after that they went to the court and succeeded in changing the law so it’s no longer possible to order this tracking.
Proton might not be ideal, but they seem to actually care about making the Internet a safer place.
I am sure that Tutanota does not use any custom encryption algorithm. It is clearly stated in the FAQ that they use RSA (with PFS) and AES to encrypt emails exchanged between Tutanota users. https://tutanota.com/encryption There’s even a section which discusses why they do not use PGP. So it’s not like they can’t add it, they just don’t because it lacks “important requirements”. Plus they even are slowly developing a protocol that is post-quantum secure to encrypt their emails with.
I’m not really saying that what Tutanota does is insecure, but historically doing security on your own instead of using established standards has not been a winning move.
Plus their unwillingness to open source it and not sharing the audits just doesn’t inspire my confidence.Overall they’re probably fine, but these are some of the main reasons I ultimately chose Proton instead.
BTW, they’re not “slowly developing” post-quantum encryption, they’re just saying they may do that at some point in the future - which everyone will have to do anyway when we get to this point.
Plus their unwillingness to open source it and not sharing the audits just doesn’t inspire my confidence.
The server side isn’t open source, and you can’t verify that is what is actually running in production. While we do recommend it I don’t personally use their products.I like the use of email clients, particularly customized to my needs.
Nested folders was only a very recent feature added https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/subfolders and without that I wouldn’t even consider a provider as I use this for organization. Of course as you can’t use your own email client, downloading email from Tutanota can be a bit of a pain too, you can only export per-folder into Mbox.
I am sure that Tutanota does not use any custom encryption algorithm. It is clearly stated in the FAQ that they use RSA (with PFS) and AES to encrypt emails exchanged between Tutanota users. https://tutanota.com/encryption
These are only primitive algorithms, the actual implementation is custom and specific to Tutanota, which mean it will only work with Tutanota as nothing else will implement it.
There is no way to do key distribution outside of Tutanota’s service.
I’ve never used Tutanota but been a Proton Unlimited user for a few years now. I definitely like the mail service, and Drive and VPN are nice but can be slow, especially Drive. Everything else I don’t have much use for, and honestly I cringe when I see the new stuff they’re working on. Not that any of it’s bad, but it feels like they’re in the “can’t just make a good product” camp, constantly trying to add on new stuff instead of focusing on quality. Could have it all wrong, though, I’m just a person, not an analyst.
+1 on that. They’re still struggling to make a good app for VPN on Linux while every other provider has sovlrd this ages ago. But overall a good service.
To be honest, that’s probably less of a priority since most Linux users are likely to be comfortable with just downloading the configs and importing them into NetworkManager.
Personally, Linux VPN app is not something I ever had any interest in. I’d rather get a Drive sync client…
Well in a recent poll that Proton held in Reddit I think, Linux users were the first requesting an app.
Yeah VPN app on Linux is ridicously bad.
i immediately got defensive at this, but that’s just my sunk cost fallacy speaking. The fact that it’s a suite is what originally sold me; cancel my 1password/dropbox/PIA and still have money left over. But yeah apart from proton mail everything else is halfbaked, and in the case of protonpass i’d call it undercooked/raw.
@keenworld I agree. They started with email a decade ago and even though it was unfinished they tacked on calendar, storage, vpn and so on. I would have wished that they finish one thing before starting another.
Tutanota deleted my account due to not logging in for 6 months. That was rough.
+1 as a Proton unlimited user. Yes, proton has some unfinished products, I mainly purchased it for vpn and email( also SimpleLogin). So others are a bit of extra for me. After some time, I also plan to switch from Bitwarden to proton pass. If macOS client comes, then I will also switch to proton drive.
Proton Drive client for macOS is on beta right now.
We’re also beginning the beta for our upcoming macOS desktop app for Proton Drive. As with the other Proton betas, we’re starting with Proton Lifetime accounts today, with Visionary users to be invited later. While community feedback is always important, it’s especially vital at these early stages, so we will send beta invites via email based on our ability to keep up with the feedback. We’ll collect feedback both on Reddit and at drive@proton.me. Once the macOS app is released, we’ll also work on our planned Linux version.
Tbh I don’t like everything in one box. Also, Anonaddy is better than simplelogin in my opinion. I use both tutanota and proton - like proton more
Plus one for Proton. I’ve used Tutanota but enjoy the Proton suite. It’s been a while since I used Tutanota so can’t remember if they have a suite or not
Tutanota has e-mail and calendar. They are currently working on cloud storage.
Tutanota is mainly an email service, with very basic calendar and contact functionality. Proton has a suite of apps, including Mail, Drive, VPN, Calendar, and Pass. I got the Tutanota subscription when it was €1/month and it works well for me.
I used to use both mail mobile apps, but found out that Proton Mail notification doesn’t work without Google Play Services, which is a deal breaker for me. So I use Tutanota as my main email and Proton as my backup and for its Drive. Either way, I’m just glad to leave Gmail.
There’s this solution for notifications if you wanna try.
https://www.f-droid.org/packages/dev.lbeernaert.youhavemail/
Thank you. I’ve looked into it, but I didn’t feel comfortable logging in with my Proton credentials.
Tutanota also has calendar. But I understand your point.
I love Proton and have been a visionary member for quite a few years. They give visionary member so much space it’s nuts.
I’ve been using Proton for a few months now and I like it. It’s under Swiss law and not part of that Five Eyes agency, so I at least feel like my data is secure. Their iOS app is actually really nice and easy to use if that will make or break something for you OP.
I am fine with Tutanota. Simple and working. All the half-finished services from Proton are just really annoying for me.
What do you mean by “half finished services”?
half backed?
Ok, I meant what are the problem in their services? I personally really hate their Android email app, which have annoying bugs, but for the rest I’m pretty happy.
Oh sorry! I mostly hated their VPN app on linux: it’s not like their VPN is a brand new service and still they can’t manage to make it work painlessly. Switched to Mullvad and now I can forget to even have a VPN. And also the Android mail app could be better indeed.
All in all it seems to me that Proton makes sense if you can have the entire package: but once you have problems with one or more of their services (VPN, email) and need to look elsewhere, then you can find good alternatives at cheaper prices.
What half-service?
Did you try their VPN on linux? Bc I did
yes is slow/shit
Better graphic interface for proton and it come with vpn, storage (500go), proton pass, calendar, etc
I pay 12$ a month
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Both are ok, but Proton is too weird, also IMAP issue for Linux users makes it even worse. Posteo is probably better service, than both combined.
How is Proton weird?
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I have been using both Posteo and Tutanota for a while. Tutanota has much more modern looking webmail and custom domains support. Both rock solid though
I like Tutanota, but find it visually annoying.
for me it’s pretty nice - though it varies between tastes for sure as my brother really hates it.
Heh, weird. Thats some solid data you are bringing forward.
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Don’t have any real evidence to substantiate this,
Then why post it and spread FUD?
Seriously shit like this is ridiculous and should get you banned. I can make shit up with no evidence as well, but it does no one any good.
Then why post it and spread FUD?
Deleted by Mod.
People please try to remember the rules about substantiating your content/posts.
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
“I have no evidence, but let me make an unsubstantiated claim and mention there’s YouTube videos about it and then recommend the very thing I said might be problematic”
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
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That’s fair.
I do think this video lays out a clear case that Proton is not as open and anonymity focused as it could be. While going from those facts to a postulation that it’s a fed honey pot is probably a stretch, to use this as grounds to say “Proton isn’t as trustworthy as they claim to be” seems reasonable.
Thoughts on that line of thinking?
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Yeah, I think that’s a reasonable expectation from the service. The notion that it’s an end-all-to-beat-all service is foolish, but when properly incorporated into an otherwise robust personal protection plan, it can probably help with security.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Bulls*t. What the random YouTubers claim without evidence is also nonsense. It’s remarkable to allege that an open source and audited app is a honeypot. Well, find it guys, it’s open source.
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I didn’t watch the video, because I don’t have 15 minutes to listen to what sounds like a conspiracy theory, but the source link for his info he put in description is dead, so that doesn’t inspire confidence…
Anyway, how would a Swiss company be a honey pot for the feds?
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please stay respectful even when someone spreads fud
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
In interest of a complete record, the video I found most compelling on the issue:
I’d love for you to disprove this guy’s claims. I mean this in good faith and will be checking back in the next couple hours.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/IeXaYR4ed9c
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Protonmail’s interface and mobile app is more refined and faster than Tutanota’s, and PM has more features on their free tier than what Tutanota provides on their free tier. Having said that, both are great email providers. I have accounts on both but I tend to use PM more at this point in time.
I am using Tutanota as my e-mail provider and it’s quite OK.
