That’s completely shifting the goalposts. Whether Republicans viewed the Democrats as being woke is an entirely different question from whether the Democrats actually were woke. Republicans believed Democrats for reasons I already explained, in my first reply and elsewhere in this thread.
The reality is that the Republican perception of the Democrats had more to do with their own minds and their own circles and their own conditions, rather than what Democrats actually said or did. Many of these people are just diehard reactionaries and unreachable anyway.
Also, Democrats won midterm races regardless of what their stance on trans rights was. El-Sayed for example did not (to my knowledge) adopt any anti-trans positions, and politicians like Talarico and Hamilton (Kansas) conceded on sports but overall had positive messaging.
This is exactly why it’s important to ground your narratives in hard facts rather than vague memories, because if you compare politicians’ rhetoric then to now, how much has it actually shifted? It’s more that Republicans overplayed their hand on the issue, while also fucking up in other, bigger ways, like in Iran. So the rhetoric that’s remembered as being “too extreme” and the rhetoric that’s seen as “reasonable” could be the exact same words, and what’s actually changed is people’s perception of that rhetoric. Which is meaningless for the conclusions and narratives you’re drawing.
So much of the rhetoric about “woke 1” is just “you remember how crazy it was, right?” without ever actually discussing what specifically was so crazy about it. And the reason that there’s nothing specific anyone can point to is that it was massively overblown. The left was never anywhere close to the levers of power, it was always centrists who at best sometimes pandered to an organic movement while doing little in terms of actual policy. It’s the same shit with like, “remember when the Democrats defunded the police” when in fact police budgets were raised almost everywhere, it was just a perception that that happened.
I definitely don’t have time to go through a decade of social media posts and news articles, so the best your going to get from me right now is my memory.
Fact that candidates like Talarico and Hamilton were able to say they didn’t support trans people on the issue of sports without the wrath of the left ending their career is evidence the Democrats are no longer “all in” on woke. Newsom said exactly as much 2 yeas ago and was branded a transphobic bigot immediately. Even though he also said very supportive things of the Trans community in the exact same podcast and has done supportive things. To me, this reaction from the community was a problem. It didn’t help that he sucks in other ways, so nobody really wanted to defend him.
“remember when the Democrats defunded the police” when in fact police budgets were raised almost everywhere, it was just a perception that that happened.
Perception was based on comments by many people on the left supporting this idea. Both politicians and the community. No actual legislation came from this, but the stigma was left behind as a result.
I think you’ve blindly accepted this narrative as dogma without any real evidence and anything that happens you could just twist into supporting the narrative. If Talarico and Hamilton had lost, you’d just say that it shows they were too supportive of trans rights, since they won, you say it’s because they weren’t fully supportive of them. Meanwhile, the example of El-Sayed is just written off because he doesn’t fit the narrative you already decided on. It’s nonsense.
To me, this reaction from the community was a problem.
Both politicians and the community.
Ah, see, there you have it. The community. When people talk about the left going too far, what they mean is almost always like some random Tumblr blog with 10 followers.
Guess what? There are still random Tumblr blogs with 10 followers saying all sorts of crazy things, wielding zero political influence just as they did back then. Fucking, saying crazy shit is part of growing up, part of sorting out ideas, and some of the “crazy shit” that’s taken to represent “the left” is literally just some 15 year old. You’re never going to enforce any kind of “party discipline” across everyone in the country.
What’s changed is not that teenagers suddenly stopped saying crazy shit, or lost the power they never had in the first place, but that the Republicans fucked shit up badly enough that people started having better things to worry about. And to some extent, people have just become more accustomed to the internet and the fact that there are always people saying all kinds of shit and it doesn’t fucking matter. And frankly, the most woke shit by the edgiest teen could barely compete with the shit Elon Musk tweets out regularly to huge audiences anyway.
So, in my opinion, this whole narrative is bullshit based on nothing but memories of perceptions.
If Talarico and Hamilton had lost, you’d just say that it shows they were too supportive of trans rights
Lol, now you’re just making shit up.
As for El Sayed, I’m not saying everybody has gone full anti-woke. I’m just saying the Democratic party has chilled out in general. There’s gonna be exceptions.
So, in my opinion, this whole narrative is bullshit based on nothing but memories of perceptions.
The point is with this sort of narrative that isn’t really based on hard evidence in the first place, virtually anything that happens can be spun to support it, and the inconvenient parts just glossed over. It’s just based on feelings so the only way to refute it is if you just happen to feel differently.
As for El Sayed, I’m not saying everybody has gone full anti-woke. I’m just saying the Democratic party has chilled out in general. There’s gonna be exceptions.
So what you are saying then is that everybody had been woke. Because otherwise, if it’s just that there are some politicians that are woke and some that are anti-woke, and it was like that before, then nothing’s really changed.
But that’s the thing. Not everybody in the party was woke. And if you relied on actual evidence instead of memories and feelings, you’d see that that’s obviously true. If everyone had been woke, that raises the question of why wasn’t there legislation that you can actually point to?
If anything, politicians generally didn’t really talk about trans people or have clearly defined stances, until Republicans decided to make it a central issue of their campaign.
Politics is not always “hard facts” and sometimes it’s just “perception and feelings”. When I saw this meme I had a reaction based on what I have seen over the last 5-10 years. I am one person on the internet. Feel free to ignore me, but also feel free to recognize that I may be representing an opinion shared by many other people that are not commenting on this thread.
I see posts on here all the time and comments on here all the time that collect to give me a perception of the “community”. Along with talking with friends and family. And not only reading headlines about things a politician said, but listening to their actual words. It is not worth it to me to google sources for you for every opinion or perception I have.
You mentioned El Sayed as an example. I saw a headline yesterday praising him for not turning his back on trans people in his 60 minutes interview. I listened to that interview and didn’t hear anything particularly pro trans. He basically said the government doesn’t need to get involved. Which is a great opinion to have.
Do I feel like having it out with you about how “woke” he is as a candidate? Not really. Especially not when it doesn’t matter.
So what you are saying then is that everybody had beenwoke.
The time we’re discussing when the Democrats were supposedly “too woke.” They had the same positions then that you call reasonable now.
You just don’t know it because you don’t care about the facts. The Democratic Party was never “particularly pro-trans” beyond the government staying out of people’s business.
That’s completely shifting the goalposts. Whether Republicans viewed the Democrats as being woke is an entirely different question from whether the Democrats actually were woke. Republicans believed Democrats for reasons I already explained, in my first reply and elsewhere in this thread.
The reality is that the Republican perception of the Democrats had more to do with their own minds and their own circles and their own conditions, rather than what Democrats actually said or did. Many of these people are just diehard reactionaries and unreachable anyway.
Also, Democrats won midterm races regardless of what their stance on trans rights was. El-Sayed for example did not (to my knowledge) adopt any anti-trans positions, and politicians like Talarico and Hamilton (Kansas) conceded on sports but overall had positive messaging.
This is exactly why it’s important to ground your narratives in hard facts rather than vague memories, because if you compare politicians’ rhetoric then to now, how much has it actually shifted? It’s more that Republicans overplayed their hand on the issue, while also fucking up in other, bigger ways, like in Iran. So the rhetoric that’s remembered as being “too extreme” and the rhetoric that’s seen as “reasonable” could be the exact same words, and what’s actually changed is people’s perception of that rhetoric. Which is meaningless for the conclusions and narratives you’re drawing.
So much of the rhetoric about “woke 1” is just “you remember how crazy it was, right?” without ever actually discussing what specifically was so crazy about it. And the reason that there’s nothing specific anyone can point to is that it was massively overblown. The left was never anywhere close to the levers of power, it was always centrists who at best sometimes pandered to an organic movement while doing little in terms of actual policy. It’s the same shit with like, “remember when the Democrats defunded the police” when in fact police budgets were raised almost everywhere, it was just a perception that that happened.
I definitely don’t have time to go through a decade of social media posts and news articles, so the best your going to get from me right now is my memory.
Fact that candidates like Talarico and Hamilton were able to say they didn’t support trans people on the issue of sports without the wrath of the left ending their career is evidence the Democrats are no longer “all in” on woke. Newsom said exactly as much 2 yeas ago and was branded a transphobic bigot immediately. Even though he also said very supportive things of the Trans community in the exact same podcast and has done supportive things. To me, this reaction from the community was a problem. It didn’t help that he sucks in other ways, so nobody really wanted to defend him.
Perception was based on comments by many people on the left supporting this idea. Both politicians and the community. No actual legislation came from this, but the stigma was left behind as a result.
I think you’ve blindly accepted this narrative as dogma without any real evidence and anything that happens you could just twist into supporting the narrative. If Talarico and Hamilton had lost, you’d just say that it shows they were too supportive of trans rights, since they won, you say it’s because they weren’t fully supportive of them. Meanwhile, the example of El-Sayed is just written off because he doesn’t fit the narrative you already decided on. It’s nonsense.
Ah, see, there you have it. The community. When people talk about the left going too far, what they mean is almost always like some random Tumblr blog with 10 followers.
Guess what? There are still random Tumblr blogs with 10 followers saying all sorts of crazy things, wielding zero political influence just as they did back then. Fucking, saying crazy shit is part of growing up, part of sorting out ideas, and some of the “crazy shit” that’s taken to represent “the left” is literally just some 15 year old. You’re never going to enforce any kind of “party discipline” across everyone in the country.
What’s changed is not that teenagers suddenly stopped saying crazy shit, or lost the power they never had in the first place, but that the Republicans fucked shit up badly enough that people started having better things to worry about. And to some extent, people have just become more accustomed to the internet and the fact that there are always people saying all kinds of shit and it doesn’t fucking matter. And frankly, the most woke shit by the edgiest teen could barely compete with the shit Elon Musk tweets out regularly to huge audiences anyway.
So, in my opinion, this whole narrative is bullshit based on nothing but memories of perceptions.
Lol, now you’re just making shit up.
As for El Sayed, I’m not saying everybody has gone full anti-woke. I’m just saying the Democratic party has chilled out in general. There’s gonna be exceptions.
Ok
The point is with this sort of narrative that isn’t really based on hard evidence in the first place, virtually anything that happens can be spun to support it, and the inconvenient parts just glossed over. It’s just based on feelings so the only way to refute it is if you just happen to feel differently.
So what you are saying then is that everybody had been woke. Because otherwise, if it’s just that there are some politicians that are woke and some that are anti-woke, and it was like that before, then nothing’s really changed.
But that’s the thing. Not everybody in the party was woke. And if you relied on actual evidence instead of memories and feelings, you’d see that that’s obviously true. If everyone had been woke, that raises the question of why wasn’t there legislation that you can actually point to?
If anything, politicians generally didn’t really talk about trans people or have clearly defined stances, until Republicans decided to make it a central issue of their campaign.
Politics is not always “hard facts” and sometimes it’s just “perception and feelings”. When I saw this meme I had a reaction based on what I have seen over the last 5-10 years. I am one person on the internet. Feel free to ignore me, but also feel free to recognize that I may be representing an opinion shared by many other people that are not commenting on this thread.
I see posts on here all the time and comments on here all the time that collect to give me a perception of the “community”. Along with talking with friends and family. And not only reading headlines about things a politician said, but listening to their actual words. It is not worth it to me to google sources for you for every opinion or perception I have.
You mentioned El Sayed as an example. I saw a headline yesterday praising him for not turning his back on trans people in his 60 minutes interview. I listened to that interview and didn’t hear anything particularly pro trans. He basically said the government doesn’t need to get involved. Which is a great opinion to have.
Do I feel like having it out with you about how “woke” he is as a candidate? Not really. Especially not when it doesn’t matter.
No, that’s not what I’m saying.
That’s literally what the Democrats were saying in “Woke 1.”
I don’t know what “woke 1” is
The time we’re discussing when the Democrats were supposedly “too woke.” They had the same positions then that you call reasonable now.
You just don’t know it because you don’t care about the facts. The Democratic Party was never “particularly pro-trans” beyond the government staying out of people’s business.