I’m not trying to convince anyone to go back i promise, quite the contrary actually cause I think spez plans to just decrease the cost of the API and act like it was a bargain deal sacrifice while not solving any of the issues at all
But, when I think about it even if spez did actually listen and reverse all changes I don’t think i want to go back to Reddit cause from what Ive seen Lemmy is just friendlier and less :Be Corporate Friendly: I would honestly love it if Lemmy did a project like r/place one of these days so we could see what the internet is actually like instead of what happened in 2022 (I really did enjoy what a bunch of communities did but when the mods started abusing their powers to make it corporate r/place lost so much meaning) but i am curious since i’m not going back is there anything Reddit can do to make you go back to Reddit?
A week ago: Bring down the API costs. I’d have begrudgingly accepted paying a few extra bucks a year for Apollo Ultra.
Today: Nothing. Reddit admins acted like smug children in the face of the Apollo Dev’s good faith questions, then the CEO and admins pulled the stunt of trying to act like the dev threatened them. Then the CEO doubled down on that story in the sham AMA. I don’t want to feed that machine anymore.
I have edited and then deleted all my posts and comments except for a few final ones that will go soon. I will keep the account but only as a point of contact for some people until I get them all contacting my email instead.
Same. Maybe if u/spez got fired and the new CEO did a complete 180, but that’s not going to happen.
No Spez
No current reddit admins
No API fees
No other weird 3rd party killing nonsense
Everybody gets frosty chocolate milkshakes
That would be a maybe.
And an apology to Christian, the dev of Apollo, on the napkins that come with the milkshakes!
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And no more power mods
Old boss, same as the new boss. I don’t think spez made the decision on their own, they absolutely suck but they’re just the scapegoat., the problem is the whole company and its structure.
Charging for APIs is not the problem, the problem is the deceitful, smug and bad faith approach to it.
The symptom is that they even considered it. The problem is that they are a for-profit company that systematically doesn’t care about us at all.
Yeah, this is why I would prefer to remain on Lemmy unless there’s literally no content, which doesn’t look like it’s going to be an issue :)
i kind of want reddit to die now. people talking to one another shouldn’t be monetized or debased through some spyware algorithm run by antisocial dickheads.
u/spez fired, paid API policy reversed, NSFW policy change reversed, public apology to christian and all reddit users promoting lemmy who got banned + compensation for defamation, all decisions regarding site administration and API policy permanently democratized, so that this shit never happens again, make the whole thing open source.
I don’t expect a single thing on my list to happen, but everything on that list would have to happen before I considered returning.
I’m a bit OOTL on this I guess, but what NSFW policy changes are you talking about specifically? I was under the impression that they’ve stayed committed to continuing to allow NSFW content. I can’t seem to find any headlines mentioning any changes with all this API nonsense.
With that said though, I did see Huffman respond to a question in his AMA in a negative sounding way towards NSFW content, so that’s ominous. Also, I’ve heard that Reddit has recently been cracking down on subreddits with inactive moderators and not allowing appeals, with a specific target aimed at NSFW communities. Is there anything more specific that has come out lately with the API changes? Or are we talking more generally about their bans on subs like /r/WatchPeopleDie and whatnot?
they probably are referring to the fact that reddit isn’t allowing 3rd party apps to have NSFW content on them
Yup, thats what I meant!
Ahhh, I completely missed that news among the API pricing bullshit. I guess I was so focused on the fact that they’ve basically just nuked third party apps, that I didn’t notice that even if they reversed their shitty pricing, they also killed NSFW content on those apps.
completely understandable, there’s WAY too much shitty stuff happening at the moment with reddit to be able to keep track of it all honestly
Reverse API changes, fire Spez, and sticky an apology to the frontpage.
But even if they did that, I’m not going back 😂
Exactly this. spez isn’t fit to be a CEO and clearly needs to go, but even if they canned him, I’m out. The only thing reddit has going for it now is its popularity which means it gets lots of traffic. The bots are out of control, the spam is out of control, and the general atmosphere is awful and nothing like it once was. Lemmy/Beehaw/which ever instance you use is a little slow, sure, but to me that’s the perfect excuse to break off from my addiction to reddit and have a site I check only a couple times a day.
Right there with you.
He accused a small 3rd party app solo developer who was working for FREE of blackmailing and threatening him. Spez would have to step down and sell Reddit to someone with better integrity and morals for me to go back.
Yeah, firing spez and the leadership team that pushed this forward is the bare minimum for showing contrition here. I’m not against a paid API that has prices based in reality instead of whatever the hell they gave us, but fundamental changes to an API like this require a minimum 12 months lead time before the change goes active.
The 30 days they gave shows an intentional disregard for the business continuity and contractual obligations of the developers who utilize the API.
Today’s AMA was something else. I honestly don’t know how a founder of reddit doesn’t understand reddit users.
I really like/liked reddit. I’ve been on it since digg v4 happened. Rif dies, I’m done using reddit on my phone. I’m not installing their app. If old dies, then I’m completely done with reddit. I’m not using new. Chances are I’ll use reddit less and less anyway though.
On the topic of not understanding reddit users, the audacity that Spez had to double down on slandering the Apollo dev was jaw dropping. The reddit community came out in force with receipts and a recording! One look at how much effort and detail these people were putting into their questions and comments should have told him to back off, but he couldn’t help himself.
This really does feel like the Digg exodus of yesteryear
Just got to keep that momentum going.
I think many people were looking for a reason to leave but kind of felt stuck seeing all the alternatives being either dead or abrasive.
Lemmy seems to have captured the soul of what a significant portion of people have already been looking for.
Lemmy in it’s current state feels very similar to reddit did ~14 years ago.
I am just smitten. I’ll never go back.
Exactly. Lemmy is great, and is essentially all I wanted from Reddit without the Reddit
Exactly! And like McDonalds, McFapper is loving it. Now bring on the NSFW instances.
I’ve only found one NSFW community so far.
Could not agree more.
This describes me perfectly. Most of the alternatives I saw previously just ended up being coopted by the alt-right crowd who got chased off of Reddit. Lemmy (so far) represents what I want from an online community.
Its so weird that the alt right hasn’t tried to seize Lemmy yet from my experience it was always the immediate fate of Reddit alts in curious if the alt right is too busy over at truth social (or rumble) oh could we please get a youtube alt next that would be so great
Peertube is a good federated alternative to Youtube, it also connects to the Fediverse and there is a central search engine called Sepia Search, which makes it easier to find content on the different instances.
Spot on. Lemmy is how the Internet was supposed to be.
I have to agree with you on that I saw a comment earlier about the people who left Reddit being a loud minority but something feels off about that
Lemmy’s community feels so familiar I sadly just can’t find the right words to describe it though
It feels oddly nostalgic. I think it reminds me of the fun I used to have when I first joined reddit.
Rather than just mindlessly scrolling with a couple “hehs” or a blowing air out my nose slightly faster than normal.
It reminds me of forums I signed up for as a teen.
Let’s hope it stays that way and grows!
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- 100% backpedal on all controversial changes announced within the previous 6 months; including any changes announced at the same time as said controversial changes.
- Form a task force of admins and developers to backport all; critical moderation tools and changes introduced since the new.reddit launch; to old.reddit. (Complete this task within 1-2 years.)
- Irrevocably Hard remove with no severance /u/spez from his CEO position and any position of power at reddit.
- Hire a new CEO from the pool of the community team(s).
- Cease all Dickery at once
- CANCEL THE IPO!!! This shit needs to wait until reddit gets it’s act together.
- Prioritize hiring humans to run reddit AEO; choose them from your MASSIVE FUCKING POOL OF SUBREDDIT MODERATORS! DO NOT USE AI OR HIRE ANYONE WHO HASN’T MANAGED AT LEAST 25K USER SUBS
- Ban all forms of facism; this is including forms of EXTREME viewpoints that grossly exceed reasonable discourse, peaceful free speech, advocate for extremist governmental regulation, violence or oppression of any kind against any group or subset of people.
- fuck /u/spez - Just make sure he never gets a C-Level job again please.
- continue to build reddit out in a way that allows for fair and ethically priced services from reddit (Ads, unlimited API access, rev sharing, premium features that are cosmetic items only, etc)
- Pick up the same “Do No Evil” ethos that Google abandoned; prioritize your users and revenue equally and balance the obligations better.
That about covers it. If all those were to occur, I’d go back. But realistically, none of them will happen.
At this point, it’s only going to get worse. It’s a very large Venture Capital backed company, on track to IPO.
Large VC/public companies goals will follow more of what we see with “mainstream” sites and social media. It’d be against their goals and their business to have less ads, less agorithms showing what their partners want to see and not what the user wants to see, less bloat on their front end. Even if the CEO wanted to go that way, he’d quickly be replaced.
It’s a self sustaining movement of capital now and users are annoyances that they have to deal to achieve their goals.
I’ll be honest, I started using redding decade ago because most forums were very niche, specific, with weird to follow rules, very low on users, and reddit seemed to always have a community for each topic I had an interest on. It still does, but the end is approaching fast, and I don’t want to search Discord servers, social media videos, or even ancient methods that are alternatives like IRC servers, mailing lists ; search results are useless in Google due to SEO and already affect other search engines
It all comes up to finding one or more sites that don’t look ancient or too mobile focused, and if enough people are going to use it and stick to it. Otherwise it’ll just be another corner of the web filled with a few crazy users
Honestly, nothing. I was pretty hopeful to see a change of heart during the AMA, but clearly that didn’t happen. Good riddance, long live the fediverse.
I was pretty hopeful to see a change of heart during the AMA,
Alas, I had no such optimism. Unfortunately, my cynicism was correct. :(
Same. Their values, attitude and disregard for users is the problem.
Same here. Reddit and I have a tainted relationship at this point. I’ve lost trust in it and the only way forward is to just part ways.
There’s nothing they can do to get me to come back. They’ve shown their cards, it’s obvious they don’t give a shit about the community built around the site. They will always choose profits over us. I’ve wiped my entire 13 year history on Reddit. Fuck u/spez
I never considered going back. Lemmy is forward. More power to the users and the community and less from greedy shareholders. This is the way.
I’ve only been here for a day, but the lack of homophobia and transphobia here compared to Reddit has been a breath of fresh air. I’m not afraid of posting here like I was on Reddit, where I’d actually have to debate with myself for a minute or two before posting. It’s like finally leaving a bad relationship; now I’m starting to see how bad that all was for my mental health.
Use the report button if you see any of that too, we will not tolerate it here.
Reddit thrives off of letting homophobes and transpbobes ruin everyone’s day, because it drives up their engagement numbers. We aren’t going to allow that here.
That’s a real relief to me. I see enough of that living in a very red town in a red state. Online communities are one of my only ways to talk to people who don’t want me gone.
There are lemmy instances hosting that kind of scum… but your instance can defederate (block) that whole server. BeeHaw does it pretty proactively.
This is so relieving tbh its mindboggling to me why all these massive sites never took a stance against homophobes/racists/transphobes like this. its been proven to hurt profits when hate is allowed on any site as people dont like being abused like i swear it cant just be that the CEOs were complacent although its sadly a dumb enough reason to be true.
Also been loving your app Dessalines its been great so far :D (if you tab out of the screen while writing though it does delete text but that aint a real issue though lol)
Thanks! Ya spending any amount of time on reddit or in youtube comments is a hair-pulling experience.
Huffman was always a white supremacist libertarian (and one of those ultra-rich preppers
Oh my lord was he one of the idiots that tried to get a study on how to force a militia group to serve them after an apolcolapse? I remember that story from years ago
Yep. My personal “favorite” quote from that article is incredibly telling of how spez thinks of himself.
“Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.” - Steve “spez” Hoffman
Wth no wonder he stayed off the site I think half of Reddit would drop kick him for being in a thread
It’s so interesting to me to hear things like this, because I have to guess you’re in completely different subs than I was / am in. I never saw anything like that, but I also don’t recall seeing very much “cesspool” on reddit either. Of course, I only went to 4 subs regularly and a total of maybe 15 ever?
Which is kind of the hard part for lemmy is the “niche” stuff (like photography is much smaller here, and the main photo sub is like one or two pics per day, so we really need something like ITAP or photocritique), multitools, etc.
The worst of it, by far, is of course the front page. But some of the subs I can think of off the top of my head where I encountered trans or homophobia are r/Science and even r/Pathfinder2e (if you know anything about the Pathfinder universe, this might seem mind boggling). There was pro LGBTQ+ support in many of these subreddits, but there was always a comment or a debate or whatever in every queer related thread.
The subreddit for the state I live in, while generally supportive, has numerous comments debating my right to exist as a queer person in most threads even vaguely LGBT related. It’s frustrating knowing I could basically only find refuge in LGBT subreddits. Everywhere else, there was always someone making a jab or starting an argument. It’s exhausting.
Wow - I’m so glad I never got into the front page at all, or looked for subs based on location. I always thought that was a Facebook thing (and I don’t use facebook). I suppose the only place I would have seen anything like that was in changemyview which is where you go to have an argument anyway.
I joined my state’s subreddit to keep an eye on local happenings. Our news outlets aren’t the best, so it was a good way to hear what was going on. For the most part, it was a good community. But there was always a handful of people who had to argue equal rights every time it came up and it was disheartening to see the same hate every single time.
Apparently I should get into photography, because your experience on Reddit sounds so chill! LOL
Well, we just argue a lot about sensor size / format, is Canon or Sony better and how many thousands of dollars we spent on cameras and lenses. Many people have opinions. I guess it’s not attacking anyone’s identity, unless you think Sony Fanboy is a critical part of your person. Kind of like the IT OS wars lol.
But yes, that and like multitools - we’re arguing about Victorianox vs Leatherman… These sorts of subs are pretty chill, and not a lot of drama that I can remember. I think things that are about something you’re a fan of, rather than location or very broad seem to be a lot better experience on reddit. And sadly, these are the communities I mostly access on my phone via RedReader and that I either would be spamming or just confusing many members if I said come on over to the lemmyverse. There are some standalone forums from long ago though that still run, so I might have to go over there if I care enough.
I’m all for a good debate. I frequented the technology subreddits since they’re related to my work and I love a good OS or language debate. I’ve learned a lot from hearing other people’s arguments. So that all sounds like friendly banter to me!
I do think the smaller the subreddit, the safer you are. Most of my best experiences are in those subreddits. I just found myself wishing I could explore Reddit a bit more without walking away bummed out by all the hate. It’s hard finding a good subreddit.
I can imagine that - I just never really felt the need to explore reddit, which might be my loss, and also why I don’t get a lot of “how reddit is”. I’m painfully out of touch for being so online (never did facebook or twitter at all), and really prefer stuff that is open…
So I’m aware I have a weird view of the online world - but I guess it’s also why I’m incensed about killing third party apps. I hate the change away from protocols where you could choose how you interacted with the net to products where the UI changes on a whim, usually for the worse, and you’re “running in place” just to do today what you did yesterday. What pisses me off the most is there’s no reason the world needs to be this way - Companies sold new cars every year without swapping around the pedals ever other year. Most home improvements are improvements but aren’t changing the UI for the house. LED bulbs don’t actually require an app for instance. We’ve had chainsaws for decades and even the electric ones work the same way and look about the same.
I don’t know why computers and the net can’t be like that. Why can’t I use Thunderbird or Vivaldi while you use Outlook and Firefox but we aren’t cutting each other off? This is why I like the fediverse. It’s why I liked IRC, and e-mail. It’s one of my main reservations about even otherwise good tools like Signal.
And it’s not like usenet providers or e-mail servers don’t make money. But back to my main point that people won’t pay for access, though I think if we went back to something more like usenet where you paid for “all the groups” rather than on a per site / per forum basic might work or again get bundled with your ISP like email and usenet were.
CEO resignation. A big fuck you to IPO? Apollo continuing. None of this will happen though.
