I think people often forget federation is not a new thing, it’s a first design for internet communication services. Email, which is predating the Internet, is also federated network and most popular widely adopted of them all modes of Internet communication. It also had spam issues and there where many solutions for that case.
The one I liked the most was hashcash, since it requires not trust. It’s the first proof-of-work system and it was an inspiration to blockchains.
I wouldn’t if that was a viable option. Today it is not really possible to not use technology, even not using mainstream apps will make you socially isolated and unemployable (which due to lack of decent social services, is a death sentence)
I dont know why I cant reply to any of you in this thread. EDIT: I will do it here:
That’s a terrible line of thinking. Why not just use it till the end, if it ever comes?
It is perfectly reasonable to sail on a solid boat instead of jumping from one sinking ship to another.
I get that you want to promote XMPP but accusing others of corruption is not how to do it, unless you have solid proof of it. Do you have any sources suggesting Signal has sold data?
I never mentioned in my main post that Signal is selling data and I also clarified in this post what I was exactly referring to. It is unreasonable to put words in my mouth
Either you have some centralization to help facilitate its ease-of-use for customers, or it becomes more difficult to setup and use. Much like the rest of life, there are trade-offs.
I disagree. There are many decentralized apps that are easier to use than centralized apps, including Signal. It is simpler to create an account on a P2P app like Briar then a centralized app that requires a phone number like Signal.
See the difference is, you need to convince non-technical people to use xmpp. Most of my non-technical friends already have Signal, no convincing required.
Every XMPP server gets as much as data from your private messages as Signal does and since XMPP clients have an option for using Tor, unlike Signal, it requires even less trust with data.
The benefits of decentralized network compared to centralized are very significant and worth trying to convince your friends. There is no single point of failure. If Signal closes due to government pressure, you will need to convince them to another app anyway and at that time there might be another popular centralized app that will again close after certain amount of pressure. The only way out of this is by pushing decentralized apps and pushing them now, rather then latter.
Signal launched in 2014 and is open source. It is literally impossible for them to “sell out”. If the main developers want to stop developing it, it will simply be forked. Do you even understand what open source software is?
I understand what open source is and I fully understand the dangers of centralized apps as well. I have addressed these arguments in my main post already. If it gets forked we will need to again develop a new app and grow the userbase from scratch. It is far more reasonable to make a switch now to decentralized services. I am simply trying to explain to people the dangers of centralized apps, just like I did for reddit (which was also open source centralized app until 2017 and here we are on decentralized lemmy now). Seeing people fighting for decentralization, out of no possible personal goal, while defending centralized system run by small group of people that gain funding for it, should never sicken you. You should encourage people like me that try to warn you in time and let you know about alternatives instead of booing me off, like people did lemmy advocates on reddit before this recent scandal.
As you can see I spent a lot of time trying to teach people about this stuff to make an actual social change that will benefit us all, so please read about XMPP and think about it. Spread the word, because I can’t possibly reach everybody.
XMPP clients support end to end encryption, so the servers only get encrypted messages. Also unlike Signal, XMPP clients support use of Tor to hide your IP.
It might be a good idea to ask local schools to talk to every class about digital privacy, teacher might be into that. Telling them about examples, such as XMPP, might be very useful.
They don’t need to be. I am talking about the security being in your hands, it is end to end encrypted and you can hide your IP behind tor, since unlike Signal, XMPP clients support use of Tor.
Using apps that cant provide anonymity and at the same time not the ones that do is very dangerous for society as a whole. Some journalist and activist need anonymity and if only place where they can be heard is on mainstream apps that don’t offer anonymity, they are stuck.
In less and less countries we are allowed to buy phones and sim cards without an ID. Phone network is a centralized system, controlled by governments, we can’t depend on that for privacy. The main treat to privacy has always been the current ruling government, they fear privacy, because they fear people organizing against them.
I disagree. There are many FOSS decentralized projects that are still running today, including XMPP, that are doing fine and make even better and more secure software than Signal. All centralized privacy apps so far closed or started sharing data with governments. Statistically that is far more likely scenario then a popular FOSS app to lack devs.
We don’t need trust in P2P networks. Companies are always trying to spread the idea that you always have to trust someone, so it might as well be them. Politicians do that too. P2P networks exist, so does direct democracies. Don’t let them make you a pessimist.
We need direct democracy. What we live in is no democracy at all, they choose for us and then we just pick the worst of two evils.
Why would you trust Signal more than XMPP that uses same encryption? I think people are just afraid of things they haven’t heard of, even if they have been there for longer and have a better reputation. This is why marketing is the biggest business in the world, google and facebooks only revenue is selling ad space and they are richest companies in the world. Fight that marketing, learn a bit about XMPP and you will see it is far better than Signal.
Old people are hard to change, but you can always try. Still at very least we should motivate young people to use this decentralized alternatives and not trying to promote centralized ones like Signal.
I suggested XMPP in my original post. It is hard, but still will take just few minutes, for a lifetime of solved privacy and centralization issues. Unlike centralized apps, decentralized networks don’t really die, just look at email. XMPP is over 20 years old and will live for 20 more, few minutes spent to set it up is well worth it.
By starting early enough and being persistent. It will take time, but we had this issues for decades and we will have it for decades more. Best time to start a revolution is yesterday, second best is today.
Why would you need to trust their choice? The only data that is sent from your server to theirs is your username (called JID in xmpp terms) and E2E encrypted message. The worst thing their server can do to yours is to send you a message, if your server decides to pass it on.
Exactly my point is that if it closes we will have to push for new apps anyway and it is better to do it now, before more users potentially use SIgnal and are left without their app.
The only part that is easier to use on Signal is also a serious privacy concern of sharing your phone number.
With decentralized apps you always have an option to add that feature, while with centralized apps like Signal you have to accept that your privacy is damaged.
In short, this argument for phone number is another argument why decentralized apps can be as user friendly as centralized, but not the other way around.
I never claimed that you should pick a random server. You can pick servers run by groups that have just as good record of privacy or even better or are run by the person you know or yourself.
When you have a decentralized service you can choose who you trust, you are not stuck with one corporation. Picking a completely random server is the worst possible example you could have chosen.
What about pinephone?