A. Please tell me exactly where I said Biden was anything more than a mildly less shit alternative to Trump. And please tell me where I was saying support the genocide, rather than support one of the people who supports the genocide.
B. I have not been talking about what Biden should have done. I have only been talking about what voters should have done.
A. I hate to do this, but
The audience I wish to reach doesn’t need their hand held as a child
Strawman, saying that this is about “leading people like they’re children” not “clear and effective communication as equals”
B. What I’m talking about is proactively sharing your views, both to save time on questioning and to fill gaps that others would have never thought to ask about. Please, tell me why this isn’t a needed part of discussion.
The point of teaching is sharing knowledge, not just poking holes in whatever argument you can (intentional hyperbole, not strawman)
The point of learning fallacies isn’t so that you can just name them and feel like you’ve made a point.
strawman
Instead of just “strawman, therefore you’re wrong” and leaving it at that, how about you explain what was incorrect in that statement. That way you become more understood, and everyone understands you more.
This isn’t a courtroom debate. This isn’t a debate you “win” or “lose”. This is a debate where everyone should be trying to understand each other, so that everyone ends up better off by the end. This sort of debate is a cooperative thing, not competitive.
That’s the question I answered.
Which would you rather support?
Pick one or give an alternative and a good reason that it will have some effect.
The lesser evil in this situation is genocide without all the other shit, and supporting that is therefore damage control
then the burden is on you to figure out how to stop getting played. Don’t ask other people to solve your problems
Sorry, but how the fuck did you get to that opinion? Sharing knowledge and ideas is how humanity thrives, but unless I’m misunderstanding you you’re saying that we should each individually find a solution to the problem we are all in together.
the spoiler effect doesn’t exist unless you’re in a swing state
The spoiler effect will always exist to some extent in any FPTP system. Sure, it won’t make nearly as much difference in a one sided state as it will in a swing state, but the effect still exists, and makes it much harder for a better party to gain traction while not losing a lot of ground in the mean time.
how many Americans were told that they have to vote for Harris or they’re supporting Trump
The people that didn’t believe this and so didn’t vote are probably the reason that Trump won the popular vote, and that the republicans have a majority in the senate and the house.
you’re suggesting that leftists are idealist, but that’s not the truth
Acting like “voting for the lesser evil is evil and therefore unacceptable” seems pretty idealist to me. I’m well aware that most people here are aware of how shit the world is, and are doing their part to improve it, which is something I appreciate and want to support. It’s just that from what I can tell, the recent US election was the wrong place for idealism.
we’re trying to make a better one, but you’re not
Sorry, mate, but don’t assume. I’m not american, I’m kiwi. And since we don’t have a completely shit voting system, I always vote as a huge idealist and never vote for one of the big two, because in MMP that’s not a wasted vote.
your cynicism has caused you to throw in the towel, and to accept the current reality as permanent, unchangeable
No. I’ve just accepted that, at least for this cycle of US elections, the better approach would be playing defensive. It’s not that the current reality is unchangeable, it’s that positive change will be very slow.
That’s absolutely an option I would consider, but it’s not an option that 99% of people can actually act on.
Supporting the lesser evil is damage control. Yes, Harris is far from great, but Trump is far worse.
not many ask
Yes, they do ask a lot, at least a far as I’ve seen. I still haven’t seen a good alternative to voting for the lesser evil in a FPTP system.
They believe they already know what others think
My opinion on that was based on the whole “don’t vote for Harris, she’ll support genocide” thing I saw earlier this year. If I’m wrong about that, or anything else, I’m more than happy to be corrected.
no one could possibly have an alternative that they’ve not already considered
Most people don’t think that no one could have a good alternative, they just don’t know of anyone who does.
your scope of evaluation is only one cycle
You’re assuming that’s my only scope. Both the short term and the long term are important, but from what I’ve seen the short term tends to get ignored in this sort of community.
This is most definitely cursed knowledge
I don’t. I’m one of two software people at a manufacturing company of 60-70 employees, so I just get to sit in the corner and do my work, then leave at the end of the day. Honestly the best part of my job.
So does that mean his shoulders are actually inside his torso, and he just has really long upper arms?
Trust me, I’m an engineer
As good as that video is, he ignores the strength elections have as damage control. Yes, large positive change needs the sort of efforts he’s describing, but ignoring voting means a bad government will have far more opportunity to undo progress.
Really, the biggest takeaway from that video is that there are more tools than simply voting and protesting, which I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with.
OK, what else do you suggest? Not voting? That just speeds the process up. Voting for the small but much better option? In a FPTP voting system (like the American one that I assume you’re talking about), the spoiler effect means that’s as good as not voting.
This is my issue with the leftist community in general, and especially the ml group. Because of idealism, they seem to ask for something that doesn’t exist and not accept anything else.
I have a suspicion that “health insurance ceo” is going to rapidly climb the deadliest jobs list
Knowing what people are like, that won’t stop adblockers for long
“You wanna know how I got these scars?”
Absolutely.
A. Even with how shit the world is there’s enough good that exists for it to be worth it.
B. If I didn’t exist, I would never have a chance to help improve the world in my small way.
Someone died. Even if that’s a billionaire from health insurance, someone dying is usually not a good thing. What is good about this situation is how it has put class consciousness in the public eye in a way that it wasn’t before.