Love it when people prove they have gotten themselves into an argument way over their heads with someone who clearly knows a great deal more than them. They always start to act like actually addressing the points being made is beneath them. It’s the easiest to see who actually knows about a subject vs who is just good at regurgitating the tropes they read in billionaire-owned western media.

Then actually engage with the points they made and debunk them if they’re so ridiculous. All this is doing is making it obvious you don’t actually know enough about the subject to even have this argument.

If those neolibs could read anything not set in Hogwarts they’d be very upset.

Go ahead and make the case for that without quoting anyone who has a CIA handler. We’ll wait.

I’m sure all the slaves the CPC freed from the Lamas agree, as do the people who suffered under British Imperialism in HK. Also, Taiwanese separatists are a shrinking minority, Taiwan is part of China, everyone agrees with that, the KMT only disagree on who is the rightful government.

Try reading some news sources from outside the US/EU empire, you’ll learn a lot.

We have a lot of center right politicians, most of the Democratic Party fits that description. They’re only “left” of the Republican party. They are not objectively on the left. The furthest left flank of the party (like Pramila Jayapal or Adelita Grijalva) could maybe be seen as center left, but the majority of the party is firmly right of center.

No. Pedophillia and porn involving minors is already illegal. This is about normalizing morality police.

Porn with minors is already illegal, that strawman doesn’t even stand up.

Lol, somebody’s never had a coked out bathroom hookup and it’s kinda sad.

Sex can involve that kind of intimacy. So can a really deep conversation while cuddling. Sex doesn’t have to involve that kind of intimacy, and would be far less likely to as a whole if idiots would stop teaching children it’s a special and magical thing that should be sacrosanct if not being used for “creating a stable pair bond”.

This kind of thinking is one half a step removed from “sex is so special and magical that people who have it in a different way than me are perverts and should be imprisoned or executed”, or the flip side of that same impulse: “sex is so special and magical that the women I want to have sex with should be held in a gilded prison guarded by eunuchs to ensure only I ever fuck them”.

So my question stands. I knew what you meant, now explain why sex is a special sphere of human activity that is materially different from any other human interaction without resorting to magical thinking.

Opposing this is about opposing the normalization of porn bans. Making porn with kids is already illegal most everywhere, and making porn where someone pretends to be a kid is already illegal in the UK.

Defending this is defending backdoor theocracy.

Side note: dibs on Backdoor Theocracy as a band name…

Until they get people comfortable with that. Then it’ll be porn that’s deemed “degrading” or depictions of BDSM, or whatever they think they can sell you next. People who want to stop porn want to stop all porn. People who aren’t religious psychos who fall for this kind of bullshit aren’t really better than the religious psychos in any practical sense.

Signed, A guy who hates step porn, and is really pissed off to have to defend it.

If two parties agreed to it under no sense of duress

As long as monogamy is considered the default and something most people wouldn’t ever consider getting away from, it’s impossible to enter a monogamous relationship absent coercion, because the coercion is societal.

Just like there’s no such thing as voluntary employment under a capitalist system, there’s no such thing as voluntary monogamy in a world dominated by Western, Bronze-age sexual politics.

only if you essentially do not view sex as any more sacred, or complex and meaningful, than food…

Why on Earth would anyone who isn’t indoctrinated into a religion ever think that sex is more sacred than any other form of human interaction?

Clearly you don’t love having the giant Bronze-age patriarchal bullshit sized holes in your reasoning pointed out.

Go on pretending anyone who isn’t exactly the same kind of ascetic you are is just a “Treatlerite”. It definitely doesn’t make you look ridiculous to leftists and liberals alike.

I think people should have sex with who they want. Not who they are forced to because of poverty.

Fine. Me too. But I also think people should speak to and do nice things for who they want, not who they’re forced to because of poverty. But you put sex work in a different category from customer service or the service industry in general. The only way that works is if you think sex is magical and different from conversation or service. And the only way that makes sense is if you’ve swallowed the bronze age bullshit sexual mores that dominate most of the world today.

And you’re still absolutely refusing to engage with the actual point, so I have to just assume you’re being disingenuous at this point.

Ok, I get it, you believe very passionately in bronze age sexual mores. You don’t have a persuasive case to make that the things you’ve listed here are unique to sex work, nor have you addressed my point about other forms of exploitive labor and marginalized people. I suspect that’s because deep down you know there is no case to make there, unless you start from the position that sex is special and magical, and you’re simply not used to arguing against someone who explicitly rejects that presupposition.

Also. My previous Links were from university websites. Research articles about published peer reviewed articles and Wikipedia articles to define definitions.

Literally everyone can just scroll up a few replies to see that it’s exactly what I said: two Wikipedia articles, one opinion piece by an anti sex work crusader org with literal cops and Neoliberal politicians on its board, and a study that doesn’t control for any confounding factors (most such studies are funded by the LDS or Catholic Church, so they don’t control for those factors bcs they know they won’t get the results they’re being paid for if they do. Didn’t read far enough to know of your study is one of those, but statistically speaking the odds are good).

Have you ever considered which systematic aspects of our society fuel the patriarchy and inequality or do you think it just appeared one day and stays around for no reason?

I’ve read extensively on the subject and I will say again what I’ve said several times in this thread: 100% of patriarchy comes from the belief that sex is special and magical and from that the ideas of virginity and purity come to guarantee paternity and maximize the selling price of daughters, from there comes almost all of the forms of patriarchy.

Now if you can explain without any magical thinking or putting sex into a special category just why you think that sex workers arearginallzed and exploited in a way that is materially different from undocumented farm workers, please do so. If not, please shut the hell up, because it’s now painfully obvious to everyone that your magical thinking doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny.

Sex is categorically not “uniquely intimate”. A stimulating conversation about a subject you’re both passionate about is a far more intimate thing that a drunken bar bathroom hookup.

That kind of magical thinking is the problem. It’s an incredibly slippery and not very long slope from “sex is a magical and unique form of human interaction” to “daughters are property of their fathers until they are sold and become property of their husbands”.

leaves you with less options in your social life, pays barely enough to get by, and is way way more intrusive to the laborer. it’s clearly not like other work.

Yeah, I forgot about all the incredibly fulfilling fast food and coffee jobs that pay a living wage and are easy to get by on.

It clearly is like any other service work, unless you believe sex is a magical, special sphere of human activity. And if you do, then you’re thinking magically and not materialistically.

God would never say that. Only vile little job-replacing clankers that exist solely to show how much contempt grocery store managers have for their customers would say that.