this is an interesting question i’ve had banging around in my mind since well before Reddit’s implosion (and Discord’s enshittification), but which seems really worth asking now.
you can’t blame Reddit and Discord or their imitators entirely for these going out of style, but they’ve sure put the dagger in a lot of remaining ones, and i kind of wonder if they’re just in an irreversible and terminal decline a la USENET. i can only name two or three i even consider checking anymore, and i’m not sure how sustainable any of those are long-term.
I just really don’t want to go back to not having threaded comment trees. It’s the big reason I left them for Reddit in the first place! But the small forum feel, the sense of community, the primitive/lack of algorithms? Yeah hit me with that shit. I could see a Fediverse platform that does this being workable.
Threaded comment trees make such a huge difference. I’m always reminded of how much I like them when I am scouring auto forums looking for answers to issues on my jeep lol
I have absolutely no ability to read a several-hundred page thread anymore. I think the dig/etc innovation that killed them was vote-weighting posts and comments rather than chronologically ordering them. It gives you an ordered list of things that are worth your attention. Folks inclined to read deeper than that can get a bit of a rush from finding some hidden gems and helping them rise to the top, either with new posts linking to a comment or otherwise.
I think the new way is much better.
I loved them, I miss them dearly, but no, I don’t think they’ll come back.
A lot has changed and the internet is not the same, for better and for worse. For one, it’s just a lot bigger. You’d think that’d make it easier, but it seems to make it harder. There’s too much noise for the communities to stand out, so what usually happens is one or two get huge and the others dwindle and die. Even just look at Lemmy, through no fault of your own, Beehaw is becoming one of the largest instances and it requires active work to spread the weight across the rest of the federation. People gravitate I guess.
Plus, because it’s so much bigger, there’s less of an identity in the spaces that do survive. Post in any reddit thread, then go to another. Chances are nobody’ll be the same (except for a few superusers) so there’s no real sense of belonging or community that the old forums had. Back then you trolled your friends, not strangers.
TLDR, yes and the current popularity of Reddit may be because it is actually hiding how it is not really that much of a community of people but rather a bad simulation.
My PhD was in this area of how older-style internet forums operate and touched on why they continue to hang around. Yes they absolutely (with caveats lol) have a future, but the mass appeal of the reddit style is surprising. I didn’t delve into that in my work but do have an educated guess that could be explored further (hint by someone else) to explain that.
Forums require a lot of engagement and memory on the part of the people who use them. Think about how context is needed to understand any text - like how easy it is to misunderstand just what the hell the USA founders really meant in the Constitution because their world-view is mostly gone. Pick any other old document if that’s a little too contentious for you.
Well, forums are the same. They require a community of people who interact with one another so that meaning can be created and maintained. Like you said, you have to read and read and read and then comment and get picked on for getting some minor lingo wrong or for breaking some taboo. Eventually, if you stick to it, you’ll become a part of the “machine”. Quite literally, you will be hosting the knowledge and processes that make the forum work, just in your head and not on the server. There are some decent higher-level theories that can help give a conceptual framework for this sort of thing. Post-materialism is helpful, so is technological posthumanism. A shortcut to all this is to think of the transhumanist movement in the 1990s. They thought they would upload their consciousness to the net. Well, in a twist of fate, the net has been downloaded into our minds instead. Basically, all those apps and stuff don’t make sense unless you have some cultural wetware installed in your noggin and some ability to communicate with others in order to keep it constantly updated.
That’s a lot of work and most people don’t do it. Instead, they’ll grab the simple and readily-accessible stuff. Memes, catch-phrases, “in-jokes” that aren’t really “in” anymore. Basically, most of Reddit can be considered a simulacrum - a piss-poor representation of community that requires little effort to participate within. Notably though, at the same time Reddit is full of the kinds of complex and effort-laden communities that I mentioned before. It is just that they are hidden in plain sight. Anyway, gotta go, it’s bedtime.
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Sorry for the late reply. Yes, I think that’s exactly right. Not my field but we are limited in the number of deep relationships we can have like you said. Of course, there are examples at both extremes; some can annoyingly have a near-multitude of deep friendships and others only one. Regardless, you are spot on, each deep relationship takes up a finite amount of time and eventually we run out of that time.
The shallower relationships that we have via memes are sometimes called “parasocial relationships”. It is usually a term reserved for one-way relationships, celebrities and their fans for example. Fans know an awful lot about their favourite celebrity and devote considerable time to the relationship. The celebrity will likely not even know that the fan exists. Still, people (the fan) can gain important benefits and I really don’t want to imply that these are somehow “bad” relationships, just that they are very different from what we normally think of as friendship.
Parasocial can extend to these sorts of meme-based simulations of a relationship you are talking about. I’m not up with this sort of literature but usually there are people who think these things can be useful shortcuts to “lubricate” interactions within large populations (where you literally cannot have deep relationships with everyone). Others might be a little crusty and say that they are not “real” relationships. Memes can also be ways of signifying being a member of a special “in” group and sociologists would pursue the idea of differentiation here - we are dividing ourselves into groups because it helps to avoid the endless complexity of individuals. This sort of research goes on a lot and is really interesting. My personal view is that it is all psychologically and socially important as a way of binding strangers together. The problem is that it often excludes and then may (not always, just may) lead to conflict between groups. So yeah, getting to know people deeply is a heck of a lot of work, just like what you and I are doing now. It’s likely far easier if I had posted a “that’s what she said” comment and you clicked the upvote button or maybe responded with a “boom!” comment. Which one is better? I don’t know, it’s up to your preference, mood, level of exhaustion after a long day, etc etc. :-) Hope that you are feeling rested.
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I’m doing great. We are a bit the opposite lol. I’m done with working for the week and looking forward to a nice quiet weekend. :-) Thanks for sharing your thoughts about religion, I’d never made that connection before.
I have fond memories of belonging to Harry Potter forums in my teens, writing forums in my early twenties, and other random homemade forums with barely half a dozen users. I do miss the sense of community, the little dramas, the signatures and avatars, the trolls and the darlings, the colorful CSS, and the overall coziness of logging on and seeing what was happening today. It was really exciting to be on Mugglenet the week before or after a new Harry Potter book was released. And I got some good support on some of the smaller writing forums. But discover-ability was rough. Better as a memory, perhaps.
