Personally I think not having karma limits is nice currently! I understand why they were used but grinding karma as a lurker on reddit was frustrating.

  • PlasmaK@lemmy.ml
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    2 years ago

    I think that after HRT the difference is not that big. Trans athletes may even be at the disadvantage since there are some cis woman that have higher than average amount of testosterone.

    In the long shot I think it would be for the best to abolish gender based separation altogether and replace it with something more like weight categories.

    • Knoll0114@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      There are things that don’t completely change with HRT (particularly when started after puberty.) Height, bone density, lung capacity, hand/foot/limb size etc. do not vary significantly after HRT and depending on the sport can make a huge difference (eg. Hand and foot size or lung capacity in swimming even where the two swimmers are the same height.)

      • PlasmaK@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        Then we should allow people to access gender affirming treatment earlier, no?

        • Knoll0114@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          That could be one conclusion since it may lead to more desirable outcomes. On the other hand, we generally don’t allow children to undergo other permanent procedures (eg. Nose jobs, tattoos etc.) because children change their minds. It can be argued that medical transition is necessary medical care (eg. like how we give chemo even though it may have permanent long-term effects.)

          However, since dysphoria is a psychiatric diagnosis (there’s nothing physical to test like a tumour) we cannot be sure in the same way that treatment is medically necessary. Therefore, I believe that the care providers should have to be extremely sure that the child is not going to detransition before making any medical moves like puberty blockers or HRT. I’m not convinced they can be sure enough or at least that they are being that rigorous (they clearly weren’t here: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62335665.)

    • oldindianmonk@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Consider two 5’6" 65kg athletes, one man and one woman, are you saying that the man doesn’t have an advantage?

      I used to believe the same until I saw the recent Women’s Premier League in Cricket. They had to reduce the size of field and the weight of ball. Even with that, the fastest bowl in the tournament was 130kmph while that speed is considered a “slower ball” in men’s cricket.

      Now some of these female cricketers earm more than any Pakistani male cricketers. Which is fair, bigger market, bigger payout. But female cricketers don’t stand a chance against the male cricketers

      • Bernie Ecclestoned@sh.itjust.works
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        2 years ago

        Consider two 5’6" 65kg athletes, one man and one woman, are you saying that the man doesn’t have an advantage?

        No, my MMA teacher was female and she’d kick my arse regularly

        They had to reduce the size of field and the weight of ball. Even with that, the fastest bowl in the tournament was 130kmph

        Now you’re undermining your first point, you’re not comparing same heights and weight. Physics is real.

        • oldindianmonk@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Okay.

          Ellyse Perry, the fastest bowler in women’s cricket is 176cm at 60kg (amazing athlete, represented Australia at both Cricket and Football world cups!). Her fastest ball was 130.1kph

          Shoaib Akthar, the fastst bowler in men’s cricket is 180cm at 80kg. His fastest was 161kph

          Laws of cricket dictate that women should use a ball that is between 415⁄16 and 55⁄16 ounces (139.98 and 150.61 grams); which could be up to 13⁄16 ounces (23.03 grams) lighter than the ball used by the men.

          Also made me think, the whole height-weight distinction will only work in purely physical sports like boxing (maybe even some american sports like baseball and nfl). It is not going to work in global sports like Cricket and Football. Think about the greatest footballers of our generation. Cristiano was 183cm (6ft) and Messi 169cm (5ft 6in).

            • oldindianmonk@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              I only pointed out the difference between the fastest. There’s plenty of shorter, leaner bowlers in men’s cricket who bowl faster than Perry. Kemar Roach for instance is in the same height and weight category as Perry and regularly bowls 150kph

              Tbf it’s expected. You know women going below 16-18% body fat is completely unhealthy while top male athletes are perfectly healthy at 6% or so

              Edit: wtf mate? Momentum is not mass of propeller times velocity. By your logic a sumo wrestler would easily be the fastest cricket bowler!

              • Bernie Ecclestoned@sh.itjust.works
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                2 years ago

                Momentum is mass x velocity. Google it.

                Would you rather get hit by a featherweight or heavyweight? Mass matters

                I’d say the difference between men and women’s cricket will reduce as women get more training and money, I don’t see any reason why not

                • oldindianmonk@lemmy.world
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                  2 years ago

                  Yes dear friend, momentum is indeed mass x velocity. But we’re not talking about the speed at which the bowler runs. It’s the speed at which the bowl is propelled.

                  (to be clear, the lower mass of cricket ball in women’s cricket is a factor in reducing momentum. But we’re talking purely speed here)

                  Some women cricketers (outside Pakistan) earn more than Pakistani male cricketers already. And I must say, I’m a huge supporter. Unlike the WNBA in the US, women’s cricket is way more popular in rest of the world.

                  It’s a biological factor that women, generally, aren’t as physically strong as men and as a supporter of female athletes, abolishing gender boundaries is practically killing women’s sports. Here’s some more data you could’ve found out by googling: https://boysvswomen.com/#/

                  • Bernie Ecclestoned@sh.itjust.works
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                    2 years ago

                    Thanks, done a little googling, I’m not very au fait with the subject

                    I found this article that reinforces most of what you say, but also makes the comment:

                    Many of the limits for women’s sport will be determined by broader cultural change. That much was revealed by a remarkable study of throwing by boys and girls across the world. Aboriginal Australian girls threw the ball harder than those from anywhere else, and the gap with boys was smaller. One can infer that the way girls are raised elsewhere in the world impedes their physical development, and that a considerable portion of girls’ athletic inferiority elsewhere in the world owes to culture, not biology.

                    https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/1104475/how-far-can-women-s-cricket-go

      • PlasmaK@lemmy.ml
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        2 years ago

        Here is a surprise for you: HRT actually does things to your body. I don’t think this should have been that hard to find on your own, but I can’t judge your circumstances.

        • Landrin201@lemmy.ml
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          2 years ago

          Transphobes always make the same tired arguments about “biological differences between men and women” and then scream and run away when you bring up actual science, because they don’t care about the science. They care about being bigots, and using science to make their bigotry look legitimate.