There are cheap electric bikes out there (at least much cheaper than a car). No need to be an athlete.
Disabled people are among those who suffer the most under car dependency. There should exist public transportation to go to parks for everyone, including disabled people.
There should exist public transportation to go to parks for everyone, including disabled people.
Yes that would be wonderful.
Unfortunately that world doesn’t yet exist.
Let me know when the light rail, or even a bus goes from Seattle to the Hoh Rainforest.
At the rate the light rail is expanding, maybe 2250.
Maybe a bus by 2075?
There are cheap electric bikes out there (at least much cheaper than a car). No need to be an athlete.
Actually motorcycles are still more performant (greater ranges, better suspension, greater speeds) and cheaper than the kinds of eBikes you are talking about, capable of making a 100+ mile journey.
One of those kinds of eBikes is about 1/4 of my yearly income from SSDI.
Before rent, before food.
Not that it would matter anyway:
How is my crippled ass, who literally cannot even balance on a stationary bike, due to the nature of my injuries, nor grip the handle bars, who would topple over within 30 seconds…
… who can barely walk 10 minutes at 1mph in braces and with a cane before I have to lie down, not sit down, lie down…
How am I gonna ride this eBike 160 ish miles to the Hoh Rainforest? Up a literal mountain range?
…
I am not in favor of car or ICE dependency.
Far from it.
But you are acting like all your proposed ideas just… already exist. That they could basically magically be implemented at the snap of a finger.
This is nonsense.
You have to actually transition to the new paradigm in a way that doesn’t just immediately fuck over people who are the edge cases that are not compatible with your vision.
Oh I am very aware and compassionate towards the dire state of mobility in the US. It’s just that you were dismissive of biking as if it had inherent insurmontable problems, whereas alternatives to cars are viable but have been suppressed politically.
Second point, it is not realistic to bike 3h one way to go to a far away park. But the question would be: does it make sense to go that far for a single day getaway? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have nice spaces in or around cities that people could go for an afternoon, but not expect to have true natural reserves commodified? People should have the right to accessible natural spaces, but the priority of reserves should be the nature, not the people. A massive presence of humans does damage.
… Do you not understand the context that arose to the comment I made?
Person 1: Its dumb that you need a parking pass, for a car, to use isolated national parks in WA, most of which are very far away from civilization.
Person 2: Just bicycle to national parks.
Me: Disabled people cannot bicycle tens or hundreds of miles to a national park, nor is that really reasonable for non disabled people generally, that is a ludicrous suggestion.
You: sp3ctr4l is obviously using disingenuous anti bkcycling, pro car strawmen arguments.
… Please learn to read before you wildly throw out nonsensical accusations.
The entire discussion here … it inherits the details and context of its parent comments.
The discussion is particular to a specific set of circumstances in Washington state, USA.
Proposing bicycling as a universal transit solution, or long distance solution, or a solution to get to remote areas, in a highly mountainous region… is wildly impractical.
I don’t know for 100% certain, but you have a .nl user account, which to me implies a decent chance you live in the Netherlands.
… A place that is about 1/4 the size of WA, and is extremely flat.
This would be like proposing bicycling as a reasonable long distance travel solution for… basically the southern half of Norway if you bisected its area at the appropriate latitude line.
That is about the same size and has comparable elevation extremes, although the climate varies much more in WA, from temperate, to temperate rainforest, to a literal desert on the east side of the Cascades.
(Indeed, this is why WA has a very sizeable population of Norweigian ancenstry, because much of the state reminded them of much of Norway.)
… Finally: Many, many people who live in WA fairly regularly do indeed go on 3hr trips to visit a distant national park for either one day, or a weekend. Mt St Helens, the Hoh Rainforest, vist the Grand Coulee Dam, etc.
I have actually known a decent number of people in my life, living in WA, who have a, 2+ hour daily commute to work, 2+ hr commute back, either by car, or involving a ferry ride, or via public transit.
I myself had such a commute via bus routes at one point.
I agree with you that truly set aside for civilization, natural parks… should indeed be difficult and remote and hard to access.
… Which is why I mocked the idea of bicycling being proposed specifically as a way to get to them.
Not to mention disabled people can get a free annual pass to all national park/land/wilderness and most (if not all) states you can get free passes to state parks as well.
Two common strawmen in favor of car dependency.
There are cheap electric bikes out there (at least much cheaper than a car). No need to be an athlete.
Disabled people are among those who suffer the most under car dependency. There should exist public transportation to go to parks for everyone, including disabled people.
Yes that would be wonderful.
Unfortunately that world doesn’t yet exist.
Let me know when the light rail, or even a bus goes from Seattle to the Hoh Rainforest.
At the rate the light rail is expanding, maybe 2250.
Maybe a bus by 2075?
Actually motorcycles are still more performant (greater ranges, better suspension, greater speeds) and cheaper than the kinds of eBikes you are talking about, capable of making a 100+ mile journey.
One of those kinds of eBikes is about 1/4 of my yearly income from SSDI.
Before rent, before food.
Not that it would matter anyway:
How is my crippled ass, who literally cannot even balance on a stationary bike, due to the nature of my injuries, nor grip the handle bars, who would topple over within 30 seconds…
… who can barely walk 10 minutes at 1mph in braces and with a cane before I have to lie down, not sit down, lie down…
How am I gonna ride this eBike 160 ish miles to the Hoh Rainforest? Up a literal mountain range?
…
I am not in favor of car or ICE dependency.
Far from it.
But you are acting like all your proposed ideas just… already exist. That they could basically magically be implemented at the snap of a finger.
This is nonsense.
You have to actually transition to the new paradigm in a way that doesn’t just immediately fuck over people who are the edge cases that are not compatible with your vision.
Oh I am very aware and compassionate towards the dire state of mobility in the US. It’s just that you were dismissive of biking as if it had inherent insurmontable problems, whereas alternatives to cars are viable but have been suppressed politically.
Second point, it is not realistic to bike 3h one way to go to a far away park. But the question would be: does it make sense to go that far for a single day getaway? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have nice spaces in or around cities that people could go for an afternoon, but not expect to have true natural reserves commodified? People should have the right to accessible natural spaces, but the priority of reserves should be the nature, not the people. A massive presence of humans does damage.
… Do you not understand the context that arose to the comment I made?
Person 1: Its dumb that you need a parking pass, for a car, to use isolated national parks in WA, most of which are very far away from civilization.
Person 2: Just bicycle to national parks.
Me: Disabled people cannot bicycle tens or hundreds of miles to a national park, nor is that really reasonable for non disabled people generally, that is a ludicrous suggestion.
You: sp3ctr4l is obviously using disingenuous anti bkcycling, pro car strawmen arguments.
… Please learn to read before you wildly throw out nonsensical accusations.
The entire discussion here … it inherits the details and context of its parent comments.
The discussion is particular to a specific set of circumstances in Washington state, USA.
Proposing bicycling as a universal transit solution, or long distance solution, or a solution to get to remote areas, in a highly mountainous region… is wildly impractical.
I don’t know for 100% certain, but you have a .nl user account, which to me implies a decent chance you live in the Netherlands.
… A place that is about 1/4 the size of WA, and is extremely flat.
This would be like proposing bicycling as a reasonable long distance travel solution for… basically the southern half of Norway if you bisected its area at the appropriate latitude line.
That is about the same size and has comparable elevation extremes, although the climate varies much more in WA, from temperate, to temperate rainforest, to a literal desert on the east side of the Cascades.
(Indeed, this is why WA has a very sizeable population of Norweigian ancenstry, because much of the state reminded them of much of Norway.)
… Finally: Many, many people who live in WA fairly regularly do indeed go on 3hr trips to visit a distant national park for either one day, or a weekend. Mt St Helens, the Hoh Rainforest, vist the Grand Coulee Dam, etc.
I have actually known a decent number of people in my life, living in WA, who have a, 2+ hour daily commute to work, 2+ hr commute back, either by car, or involving a ferry ride, or via public transit.
I myself had such a commute via bus routes at one point.
I agree with you that truly set aside for civilization, natural parks… should indeed be difficult and remote and hard to access.
… Which is why I mocked the idea of bicycling being proposed specifically as a way to get to them.
Not to mention disabled people can get a free annual pass to all national park/land/wilderness and most (if not all) states you can get free passes to state parks as well.
… But it is a free parking pass for a car, so the suggestion of using a bicycle, to avoid using a car, is still utterly nonsensical.