You are either a man, a woman, or you have a syndrome
So someone with de la Chapelle syndrome is neither a man nor a woman but has a syndrome? ‘Man’ and ‘woman’ are social categories and syndrome is not, so this makes no sense. Also I doubt you’d be able to spot the ‘syndrome’ in a group of men.
It’s a delusion to believe that you can change your biological sex during your lifetime.
This is a strawman I see repeated a lot. I’ve never seen trans advocates claim this, only opponents. Even then I would still argue that it is true to some extent. Sex is not just chromosomes (as proven by the two conditions I linked above). It’s made up of many different characteristics and you can change some of them, e.g. with hormone replacement therapy, which changes some secondary sex characteristics. Or even just gynecomastia does it too.
And no, you won’t change speech, you are a man and a he, a woman and a she. That’s it, you can get as angry as you want, nothing will ever change that.
Language is completely made up and changes all the time. But you’re claiming it will never change again?
You’re approaching this discussion from a place of certainty, but the reality of biology, language, and human variation is more complex than the rigid model you’re presenting.
A few key points:
If sex is strictly XX = woman and XY = man, how do you explain the people who don’t fit that?
1 in 50 people has a variation of sex development (VSD). That’s not an anomaly, but a substantial population.
Genetic chimerism, which is rarely tested for, suggests as many as 12% of people have mixed chromosomal expressions—that’s 3 in every 25 people who do not neatly fit XX or XY.
Any woman who has ever had a child is a genetic chimera, because she retains some of her child’s DNA, meaning many women carry male DNA within their bodies.
If sex were as simple as XX/XY, these biological realities wouldn’t exist. But they do, and they complicate the notion that sex is an unchangeable binary.
If hormones don’t affect biological sex, why do they permanently alter the body?
Puberty is a hormonal process. It reshapes bodies, voices, muscle structure, brain development, and reproductive function.
If sex were truly “fixed,” introducing testosterone or estrogen wouldn’t fundamentally change these same traits in adults. But it does.
So which is it? If hormones don’t influence sex, then puberty doesn’t matter either. If they do, then transitioning alters biological characteristics in ways that contradict your claims.
If language is purely “natural evolution,” why has it been deliberately changed by societies and governments throughout history?
Modern Italian was not a natural evolution—it was imposed on Italy’s diverse dialects by the state.
After WWI, German was banned in schools and public institutions in parts of the U.S.
The French government has actively tried to suppress regional languages like Breton and Occitan to enforce a singular linguistic identity.
These weren’t “organic” shifts—they were deliberate policy changes. If language only changes on its own, these documented historical events should not have been possible.
If entire nations have altered their linguistic structures through conscious intervention, why would the evolution of gendered language be any different?
You argue that intersex people are “rare,” but rarity does not erase reality.
Left-handed people make up about 10% of the population—a minority, but we don’t dismiss their existence because they aren’t the majority.
The number of people with red hair is lower than the percentage of intersex people, yet no one claims red hair is “unnatural.”
Statistical frequency doesn’t determine what is real. Something doesn’t need to be common to be biologically significant.
The pattern in your responses suggests you are more emotionally invested in this topic than you claim.
You’ve repeatedly expressed personal relief that trans people are not common in your area. That’s not a neutral scientific observation—that’s a personal bias.
You dismiss contradictory biological realities by calling them “defects” rather than engaging with what they actually mean.
You insist this discussion is about “logic,” yet when presented with genetic, medical, and linguistic evidence, you shift the argument rather than addressing the inconsistencies.
If you want to engage with this topic honestly, you’ll have to account for these contradictions instead of sidestepping them. If your argument is strong, it should be able to withstand scrutiny. If it can’t, then maybe the issue isn’t with the facts—it’s with the assumptions you started with.
And again, those are conditions, not something you choose to be, you are simply born like that.
I was pointing out how XX doesn’t always mean female and XY doesn’t always mean male. I didn’t say you could change your chromosomes. I think you might be misunderstanding the OP. When it says ‘some XX people become cis men’ it means that embryos with XX chromosomes develop into cis men, not that they decide to be later in life.
Well than, waht is someone with Chappel syndrome?
Usually a man.
Oh yes, it’s also the malformations that you were born with
How do you differentiate between “normal” and a malformation? These are just arbitrary categories we made up. The reality is that we can observe that some humans just are like that and that’s fine and normal.
oh so you need drugs to mimic traits from the opposite sex (there are only two after all) and gender is given by your sex.
You’re moving the goalposts. You were arguing that you can’t change sex and now you’re retreating to ‘you need drugs to change sex’, which is true for HRT, but not necessarily for gynecomastia.
It’s also not “mimicking” traits. Someone with gynecomastia or someone who takes feminising HRT grows the same kind of breasts as a cis woman.
Yes, language is not “made up” it evolved and will evolve naturally, demanding language to change to cater to you is not natural.
Even if this was true it would just be an appeal to nature. Natural doesn’t mean good and unnatural doesn’t mean bad.
But I don’t think you can differentiate between ‘natural’ and ‘unnatural’ changes to language. Do you think language just evolves on its own without any human interference? Language is by definition something we do.
How do you differentiate between “normal” and a malformation?
If you need special care or attention that is a malformation. If there is a change in your physionomy that impedes you to have a life as normal as other human (you were born without a hand) that’s a malformation.
You were arguing that you can’t change sex and now you’re retreating to ‘you need drugs to change sex’
I was actually arguing that you can’t change your genome, so yeah, sex. But by HRT you still don’t change that, you just try to mimic traits oposite of yours.
Do you think language just evolves on its own without any human interference? Language is by definition something we do.
Of course language can be influenced, but usually when it is, it’s for ease of understanding, and generally making people lives better.
By changing the language just for some people to be triggered because they were “misgendered” you don’t bring any value
If you need special care or attention that is a malformation. If there is a change in your physionomy that impedes you to have a life as normal as other human (you were born without a hand) that’s a malformation.
This doesn’t apply to many of the intersex conditions we talked about. They can present in a way where people don’t even notice they have them.
I was actually arguing that you can’t change your genome, so yeah, sex. But by HRT you still don’t change that, you just try to mimic traits oposite of yours.
We’ve already established that genome doesn’t exclusively determine sex. An XX male could live their entire life as a man and never even know that they have XX and not XY chromosomes.
Of course language can be influenced, but usually when it is, it’s for ease of understanding, and generally making people lives better.
By changing the language just for some people to be triggered because they were “misgendered” you don’t bring any value
It brings value to the people who are affected. And we do this sort of thing a lot. Just like almost nobody says the n-word any more because we’ve collectively decided that it’s inappropriate.
Honestly it feels like you’re doing all these mental gymnastics just so you can have a justification for being rude to trans people. Is that really how you want to spend your energy?
I think it’s really funny you left out the exact intersex conditions that disprove your point, Swyer syndrome and de la Chapelle syndrome.
So someone with de la Chapelle syndrome is neither a man nor a woman but has a syndrome? ‘Man’ and ‘woman’ are social categories and syndrome is not, so this makes no sense. Also I doubt you’d be able to spot the ‘syndrome’ in a group of men.
This is a strawman I see repeated a lot. I’ve never seen trans advocates claim this, only opponents. Even then I would still argue that it is true to some extent. Sex is not just chromosomes (as proven by the two conditions I linked above). It’s made up of many different characteristics and you can change some of them, e.g. with hormone replacement therapy, which changes some secondary sex characteristics. Or even just gynecomastia does it too.
For people who are interested in what the actual science says about this topic I recommend Forrest Valkai’s new Sex and Sensibility video (warning, it’s long).
Edit:
Language is completely made up and changes all the time. But you’re claiming it will never change again?
And again, those are conditions, not something you choose to be, you are simply born like that.
Well than, waht is someone with Chappel syndrome?
Oh yes, it’s also the malformations that you were born with
oh so you need drugs to mimic traits from the opposite sex (there are only two after all) and gender is given by your sex.
I am actually gonna watch this
Yes, language is not “made up” it evolved and will evolve naturally, demanding language to change to cater to you is not natural.
You’re approaching this discussion from a place of certainty, but the reality of biology, language, and human variation is more complex than the rigid model you’re presenting.
A few key points:
1 in 50 people has a variation of sex development (VSD). That’s not an anomaly, but a substantial population.
Genetic chimerism, which is rarely tested for, suggests as many as 12% of people have mixed chromosomal expressions—that’s 3 in every 25 people who do not neatly fit XX or XY.
Any woman who has ever had a child is a genetic chimera, because she retains some of her child’s DNA, meaning many women carry male DNA within their bodies.
If sex were as simple as XX/XY, these biological realities wouldn’t exist. But they do, and they complicate the notion that sex is an unchangeable binary.
Puberty is a hormonal process. It reshapes bodies, voices, muscle structure, brain development, and reproductive function.
If sex were truly “fixed,” introducing testosterone or estrogen wouldn’t fundamentally change these same traits in adults. But it does.
So which is it? If hormones don’t influence sex, then puberty doesn’t matter either. If they do, then transitioning alters biological characteristics in ways that contradict your claims.
Modern Italian was not a natural evolution—it was imposed on Italy’s diverse dialects by the state.
After WWI, German was banned in schools and public institutions in parts of the U.S.
The French government has actively tried to suppress regional languages like Breton and Occitan to enforce a singular linguistic identity.
These weren’t “organic” shifts—they were deliberate policy changes. If language only changes on its own, these documented historical events should not have been possible.
If entire nations have altered their linguistic structures through conscious intervention, why would the evolution of gendered language be any different?
Left-handed people make up about 10% of the population—a minority, but we don’t dismiss their existence because they aren’t the majority.
The number of people with red hair is lower than the percentage of intersex people, yet no one claims red hair is “unnatural.”
Statistical frequency doesn’t determine what is real. Something doesn’t need to be common to be biologically significant.
You’ve repeatedly expressed personal relief that trans people are not common in your area. That’s not a neutral scientific observation—that’s a personal bias.
You dismiss contradictory biological realities by calling them “defects” rather than engaging with what they actually mean.
You insist this discussion is about “logic,” yet when presented with genetic, medical, and linguistic evidence, you shift the argument rather than addressing the inconsistencies.
If you want to engage with this topic honestly, you’ll have to account for these contradictions instead of sidestepping them. If your argument is strong, it should be able to withstand scrutiny. If it can’t, then maybe the issue isn’t with the facts—it’s with the assumptions you started with.
I was pointing out how XX doesn’t always mean female and XY doesn’t always mean male. I didn’t say you could change your chromosomes. I think you might be misunderstanding the OP. When it says ‘some XX people become cis men’ it means that embryos with XX chromosomes develop into cis men, not that they decide to be later in life.
Usually a man.
How do you differentiate between “normal” and a malformation? These are just arbitrary categories we made up. The reality is that we can observe that some humans just are like that and that’s fine and normal.
You’re moving the goalposts. You were arguing that you can’t change sex and now you’re retreating to ‘you need drugs to change sex’, which is true for HRT, but not necessarily for gynecomastia.
It’s also not “mimicking” traits. Someone with gynecomastia or someone who takes feminising HRT grows the same kind of breasts as a cis woman.
Even if this was true it would just be an appeal to nature. Natural doesn’t mean good and unnatural doesn’t mean bad.
But I don’t think you can differentiate between ‘natural’ and ‘unnatural’ changes to language. Do you think language just evolves on its own without any human interference? Language is by definition something we do.
Yes, I actually was
If you need special care or attention that is a malformation. If there is a change in your physionomy that impedes you to have a life as normal as other human (you were born without a hand) that’s a malformation.
I was actually arguing that you can’t change your genome, so yeah, sex. But by HRT you still don’t change that, you just try to mimic traits oposite of yours.
Of course language can be influenced, but usually when it is, it’s for ease of understanding, and generally making people lives better.
By changing the language just for some people to be triggered because they were “misgendered” you don’t bring any value
This doesn’t apply to many of the intersex conditions we talked about. They can present in a way where people don’t even notice they have them.
We’ve already established that genome doesn’t exclusively determine sex. An XX male could live their entire life as a man and never even know that they have XX and not XY chromosomes.
It brings value to the people who are affected. And we do this sort of thing a lot. Just like almost nobody says the n-word any more because we’ve collectively decided that it’s inappropriate.
Honestly it feels like you’re doing all these mental gymnastics just so you can have a justification for being rude to trans people. Is that really how you want to spend your energy?