Exactly. It was a douche and a turd sandwich. Refusing to vote because “they’re a turd sandwich” is simply saying “I’m okay with the douche”. It’s a 2 party system. There are no good candidates. Only one that’s marginally better than the other. Not voting is tacitly voting for the worst one.
Not an USAmerican, but by that logic:
Are Kamala, her party and her supporters who couldn’t get those people to vote for Kamala also responsible for the increased suffering?
Are they responsible for the people not being convinced that the suffering would be lesser under Kamala?
Did Kamala and party show significant effort and good faith to woo those people?
Or was it the 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler thing? Asking since most online discourse I saw on it here in lemmy was like that, where they’re saying Trump would be worse, instead of saying that Kamala would be better, de-escalate stuff etc.
If that’s how they place the blame, then that’d be cool.
But other than that, in reality, it likely seems to become a blame game, where they don’t want to look at why they lost the trust of the folk who they are blaming.
Though, I’m just seeing online interactions. Maybe offline interactions are much more decent and useful.
The Dem establishment will obviously blame anyone but themselves. That’s what establishments do. That’s why, assuming there are still free and fair elections in America in two years time, left wing voters in the US need to start planning now how they’re going to primary out every last establishment Dem who thought that leaning right was the answer, and replace them with people who do believe in real progressive politics.
It won’t work everywhere. It can’t. And some of those people will inevitably get caught up in the machine, or turn out not to be what they claimed. Reality is messy. But get enough of them in and you can make a real difference. The mid-terms are the American left’s opportunity to do what the right did in 2010.
But at the end of the day none of this matters, because we’re just two outsiders pontificating over another country’s politics. Despite how deeply those politics affect the whole world, there’s nothing we can actually do about it, other than focusing on what we can do in our own back yards.
Oopsie, when writing my comment I deleted my first attempt as I was going on and on forever and decided I was just gonna copy paste what I found previously.
It looks like after deleting the draft I clicked reply on your comment by accident instead of whathever I wanted to reply to.
The human body was not made for mobile devices and tiny touch buttons.
Thank you for letting me notice this, I’ll see if I find the other comment I wanted to reply to.
So, it was worth Trump getting a second term in order for you to maintain your moral purity?
Listen, fuck Harris and every other Dem who failed to condemn the war in Gaza, they all deserve to burn in hell for that.
But did you really get what you wanted out of this?
Exactly. It was a douche and a turd sandwich. Refusing to vote because “they’re a turd sandwich” is simply saying “I’m okay with the douche”. It’s a 2 party system. There are no good candidates. Only one that’s marginally better than the other. Not voting is tacitly voting for the worst one.
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Not an USAmerican, but by that logic:
Are Kamala, her party and her supporters who couldn’t get those people to vote for Kamala also responsible for the increased suffering?
Are they responsible for the people not being convinced that the suffering would be lesser under Kamala?
Did Kamala and party show significant effort and good faith to woo those people?
Or was it the 99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler thing? Asking since most online discourse I saw on it here in lemmy was like that, where they’re saying Trump would be worse, instead of saying that Kamala would be better, de-escalate stuff etc.
Yes, they are morally culpable too. Even more so than the people who refused to vote for them.
That’s the thing about ethics when you actually apply it in reality; someone else being wrong doesn’t mean you’re right.
If that’s how they place the blame, then that’d be cool.
But other than that, in reality, it likely seems to become a blame game, where they don’t want to look at why they lost the trust of the folk who they are blaming.
Though, I’m just seeing online interactions. Maybe offline interactions are much more decent and useful.
The Dem establishment will obviously blame anyone but themselves. That’s what establishments do. That’s why, assuming there are still free and fair elections in America in two years time, left wing voters in the US need to start planning now how they’re going to primary out every last establishment Dem who thought that leaning right was the answer, and replace them with people who do believe in real progressive politics.
It won’t work everywhere. It can’t. And some of those people will inevitably get caught up in the machine, or turn out not to be what they claimed. Reality is messy. But get enough of them in and you can make a real difference. The mid-terms are the American left’s opportunity to do what the right did in 2010.
But at the end of the day none of this matters, because we’re just two outsiders pontificating over another country’s politics. Despite how deeply those politics affect the whole world, there’s nothing we can actually do about it, other than focusing on what we can do in our own back yards.
there’s plenty of blame to go around; no 1, 2, or 3 people or groups are to blame
best we can hope for now is for netanyahu to bruise the orange ego somehow and find out what petty retaliation looks like
Increased suffering?
How can their suffering be increased more than it is now?
Israel is already getting everything could have ever wished for. There is nothing trump could do to make that worse.
There were other reasons to vote for Harris, but this wasn’t one.
Edit: looks like I replied under the wrong comment. Sorry about that. :)
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What exactly do you think my current position is?
Oopsie, when writing my comment I deleted my first attempt as I was going on and on forever and decided I was just gonna copy paste what I found previously. It looks like after deleting the draft I clicked reply on your comment by accident instead of whathever I wanted to reply to. The human body was not made for mobile devices and tiny touch buttons.
Thank you for letting me notice this, I’ll see if I find the other comment I wanted to reply to.