I’m considering picking up a cheapish laptop for development, with the intent of installing Linux on it. Typically it’ll be Java development or other stuff in docket containers. Is there a best chipset to pick for Linux or are they pretty much identical these days?
Depends on your goals but right now AMD is eating high end thin and lights for dinner. Their new APUs are more powerful, more efficient, and have better graphics than anything from Intel.
But Intel is also still good and very available with more choices and lower cost due to the higher demand for AMD.
Both are great Linux choices, but ARM/Apple are currently not great for desktop.
But AMD APUs are shit on Linux since theyre not really officially supported. I mean they have drivers, but the drivers are shit
Actually APUs are generally shit on Linux.
I have to disagree with you on that. While it is true, that intel laptop chipsets offer often greater linux support than the amd chipsets, both platforms support linux and are much more dependent on the manufacturer of the motherboard than on the chipset
With the second statement I totally disagree. I even would go as far as to suggest the opposite. Linux on laptos only makes sense for APUs, since switching between dedicated and integrated graphics is still a manual process and using only the dedicated graphics chip tanks the battery life
Well I think my main problem with APUs on Linux doesn’t has anything to do with Linux. It’s just that the manifacturer doesn’t care about people using APUs for more than office work so they generally a bad experience when you try to for example game on it.
Is this understandable or just word salad?
As a gamer who uses a Thinkpad Z13 Gen1 with a Ryzen 6860Z APU, I disagree. Most games run just fine here via Proton-GE or Wine-GE. For newer AAA games however, you’ll need to dial down the graphics - but that’s expected of an iGPU. The most recent game I played on it was Diablo 4, which was running at a very playable ~45FPS at 1080p medium settings. This was on Nobara btw, a gaming-optimized distro based on Fedora.
My experiences with a 4700U/5500U and 5600G has also been great on just Fedora
Well I have a Ryzen 2400g and sometimes I get weird graphical glitches or issues that nobody else except people with a ryzen APU
Is that why every gaming handheld and gaming mini PC uses AMD?
It’s because Intel iGPUs suck even more
What’s the difference?
Even worse drivers
Steam Deck runs an AMD APU and it’s phenomenal for the scale. I’ve run a ton of systems on APU’s just fine.
AMD has better hardware support because they are more active in contributing than intel. Also, they have overtaken intel in terms of efficiency (price per watt, price per Hz)
But AMD doesn’t update the microcode of their CPUs
Yes, very rare and very few cpu up to date, almost none of them
show that “very few cpu up to date”
see for instance the microcode for family 19, the Zen3, Zen4 family, the microcode update is:
Microcode patches in microcode_amd_fam19h.bin:
-
Family=0x19 Model=0x11 Stepping=0x01: Patch=0x0a10113e Length=5568 bytes -
Family=0x19 Model=0x11 Stepping=0x02: Patch=0x0a10123e Length=5568 bytes -
Family=0x19 Model=0xa0 Stepping=0x02: Patch=0x0aa00212 Length=5568 bytes -
Family=0x19 Model=0x01 Stepping=0x01: Patch=0x0a0011d1 Length=5568 bytes -
Family=0x19 Model=0x01 Stepping=0x00: Patch=0x0a001079 Length=5568 bytes -
Family=0x19 Model=0x01 Stepping=0x02: Patch=0x0a001234 Length=5568 bytes -
Family=0x19 Model=0xa0 Stepping=0x01: Patch=0x0aa00116 Length=5568 bytes
There is only update for 7 CPUs, before this August update, there was only 3 microcode!!! compare this to the number of CPU they have in this family:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
I have a 5600H, family 0x19 and model 0x50, no update, as well as dozens of others AMD cpu.
-
The last update for Zen 3, Zen 3+, Zen 4 was 08/08/2023 and the last update for Zen, Zen+, Zen 2 was 19/07/2023.
For reference, Intel also last updated theirs 08/08/2023.
Yes you can argue that we don’t explicitly know what CPUs in those families were updated, but I don’t really care.
We know, here’s the list, it’s pretty poor, AMD don’t release often its microcode, and when they do it’s only for a few select CPUs
https://salsa.debian.org/hmh/amd64-microcode/-/blob/main/amd-ucode/README
If you are lucky, someone will extract its microcode from his BIOS and put it there:
That first link is still whole generations of CPUs I believe, all the way back to K10 from 2007. Wikichip has a table to convert the hex to generation.
And the microcode usually gets patched by Linux, so why does the BIOS matter? (I’m aware it can be disabled, but why would you)
Take an example at the Cezanne CPU from your link, https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/cores/cezanne AMD CPU Family 19h, Model 50h. There is 26 CPUs from 2021. Check the microcode update at https://salsa.debian.org/hmh/amd64-microcode/-/blob/main/amd-ucode/README there is no model 0x50.
AMD can release microcode to integrator/OEM who put it in their BIOS. But giving it to linux community? super rare. People have to know that AMD do not release microcode, I don’t know why people think that the hundreds of AMD CPUs get new microcode every time there’s an update?!?
Intel or AMD for the CPU, but AMD for the GPU if you need any graphical capabilities. AMD GPU’s are pretty solid as well. There’s definitely more choices available with Intel CPU’s but if you can find a good AMD chip then go for it.
I’ve always been an AMD fan and used those in my desktops, but for laptops it’s been harder to find something that pushes all the buttons for me.
On the flip side, if 3D graphics performance is not a priority then Intel graphics is incredibly well supported and is probably the most consistently reliable and bug-free graphics option.
Except for some stuff on the Atom processors, yup. Generally Intel’s video hardware has worked very reliably, if not powerfully. Their network cards (wireless and wired) also tend to be well-supported and perform well.
Regarding Atom, the x7-z8700 in my surface 3 caused problems for a while, and I’m not sure it’s still 100% in Linux, and it’s been out for ages.
Plus, if you’re planning on using Wayland with any wlroots compositor, Nvidia is essentially a non-starter.
I have a Lenovo ThinkPad T430 that is by now almost 10 years old, it runs perfectly on Linux and is a fantastic choice even today. It’s built like a tank and that Intel i5 powering it is immortal. DDR3 RAM is dirt cheap now and it takes up to 16Gb, you can swap its HDD to a SATA SSD (if not done already) and batteries for it are still cheap and plentiful.
If you’re looking for something affordable for software dev, I can’t think of a better choice for $200-$300
https://www.lenovo.com/lt/lt/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/t430/
They really built this one right, they don’t make them like this anymore.
And if you go just slightly older on Thinkpads, you get real keys.
you can get real keys by putting the t420 ones on the t430
I have a T440p, and it’s worth noting that on many of these Thinkpads, not only can you replace the HDD with an SSD, but you can also install a 2nd or 3rd drive.
You can get a replacement tray that allows an SSD in the optical bay. You can also install a small cache drive in the m.2 port under the keyboard (again, only with certain ones – T440p has it).
About the same, I have a Dell latitude E5470 with a i5 6th gen, 8GB, SSD, 14" IPS, less than $200, it’s a superb laptop that was like $1500 new. MX Linux runs everything 100%
X220, 300 Dollars in 2021, with i7-2640m, never look back for now. I’m thinking buying L380, as I need Waydroid to debugs app. My Phone become shitty. I think I will buy new phone, but not now I guess? Thinkpad X220 expected to work til 2027
AMD has served me well since I’ve started actively using Linux.
Important thing to note, when using AMD, you’ll probably need an additional
amd_pstateparameter for better power management.Sources:
Best bang for your buck, AMD 100%. Im not really a Laptop person, but I suggest going to a Pawn Shop. They sell laptops cheap as F, as they are always overloaded with them…
Doesn’t really matter between brands across OSes at this point. AMD offers better performance per dollar though
CPU brand choice doesn’t really matter a lot.
In general, I’d say go with AMD if you can afford it, but otherwise Intel is fine. Intel has caught up slightly the past couple of years, but AMD APUs are still at the top in terms of what you get for the money. If you can’t get an AMD laptop because of low stock/price or see an Intel laptop with more features you like, just go for that instead. I have an Intel laptop and the CPU worked fine on Linux (running Windows right now since driver support for other parts of the laptop like speakers and the display were a little shoddy because of how new it was).
I don’t know if this still remains true (if not, please correct me), but AMD will be marginally better for productivity and programming because of the multi core performance. They are also slightly more efficient than Intel in terms of power usage, although I’m sure any laptop besides a gaming laptop will give you solid battery life in 2023.
I’ve never used AMD, but folks I know have had good experiences with both; support is about equal. You probably don’t need to go for a top-tier device, and if you’re running VMs and containers you should be just as concerned about RAM and disk space as CPU
I’d say go for AMD because their APUs are excellent, but they will be expensive. You can find used/refurbished ThinkPads in really good condition for very cheap (~$200, see this thread where I learned about this), and most (all?) of them have Intel CPUs.
Anyway, right now Linux works perfectly well on both of them*.
*: If the kernel version is greater than 5.19.9 (issue first appeared with the 5.19.10) and less than 6.4, you’ll likely have an annoying keyboard issue with Linux on new AMD Ryzen laptops, as typing will be extremely slow. That has been corrected now and with an up-to-date kernel you shouldn’t have any keyboard issues on an AMD laptop.
Neither one of them have any particular Linux specific problems. Just get whatever suits your needs best.
I wonder the same, some time ago but for different reasons. If I have to buy a gaming laptop, what should I choose? Intel CPU and Nvidia was my best friend on Windows, but on Linux I’m totally unsure. I think AMD does a better job for gaming under Linux, but I have absolutely no idea if that’s true.
If it’s not Nvidia, it’s good… Both Intel and AMD should work nicely.
It’s easier to find Intel NICs/WNICs in Intel based laptops, and it’s easier to find refurbished Intel laptops.
Also, check and see if the laptop is supported by LVFS.
