Wow, that’s extremely offensive! How dare you steal my hometown’s unique and clever slogan?!

That’s shifting the goal post to cost, and not answering my question. Humans domesticated chickens long before factory farming existed. Animals breed of their own volition. There ARE farms that are only end-of-life slaughter. Do not force their animals to breed, provide excellent lives, etc. Who cares if it’s inefficient? That wasn’t the question. I’m going to ask the same question again. Are you universally against ALL animal products on principle, or would you be okay with goats cheese, as an example, if you could be certain it had a phenomenal life?

And once again, this is an argument against factory farming and inhumane practices, not farming and domestication in general.

Yes, I agree that factory farming is horrific. Yes, I agree that people should eat less meat. Yes, I agree people need to be more aware of where their products come from.

However, just because you neighbor beats his dog doesn’t mean everyone does.

And I repeat the same question I ask every time. Are you universally against ALL forms of animal domestication and husbandry? Eg. A small hobby farm that keeps a few chickens for eggs, and a few goats for milk.

That’s an argument for vegetarianism, not veganism. What about wool, honey, milk, eggs. And different countries have different mechanisms. Using the USA as a basis, is admittedly a bad example.

Here in Germany, there are very strict regulations on how living conditions can be claimed, ranging from 1(literal torture) to 5(outdoor access, pasture raised etc.) I’m not saying it’s a perfect system, but I can’t agree that it’s impossible and pointless to try when there are places actively trying and actively supporting l.

Actually, counter-intuitively, strict veganism would objectively increase animal suffering if authentic alternatives exist. Which they do. But they are admittedly not easy to find. Ethical farms do exist, and typically self-regulate and self-support by selling the products the animals produce. Wool clothes, free-range eggs, end-of-life meat, excess milk & honey, etc. If your only 2 options are torture products, or nothing, then yes I 100% agree that veganism would be the correct choice. Between these 3 options though, giving your money to an ethical farmer objectively increases the livelihood of the animals under its care, more so than complete avoidance.

You didn’t answer my question. Would you/do you support the ethical and mutually beneficial raising of animals? Chickens for eggs, milk for dairy animals. No abuse, good healthcare, no premature slaughter, etc.?

Edit. I just realized I’m not responding to the same person. But the deflection still stands.

You realize putting googly eyes on a toaster doesn’t give it feelings, right?

Assigning human values and desires to non-humans is not a coherent philosophy or ethical position.

Animals “Exploit” each other throughout the animal kingdom. Ants Literally farm aphids by protecting and herding them in exchange for what they produce. How is this wildly different from keeping a cow or a goat for milk?

Is the cow version evil because we’re humans, but the ant version okay because they aren’t?

Because that’s just making rules based on your desired outcome, not reason.

Then as a vegan you would support raising chickens, pigs, and goats on a small hobby farm where the animals are extremely well cared for and happy?

What you want to be normal and what is actually normal are not the same thing. Regardless of best wishes, it actually is normal in a shocking number of places. Unless you’re referring exclusively to the small social circle you live in, but that’s not really a useful data point for us to discuss, because it’s not what the conversation is actually about.

Hey peeps, I’m pretty sure they’re reacting to the SECOND “normal” statement, not the first.

Neelix had met Kes just a single time a month prior to them being introduced in the show. If that’s grooming, then every vacation fling is also grooming

I agree with the anime trope part, but that only complicates your position.

Is it strange because the anime girl is physically young? Then there’s no issue with Kes.

Is it strange that she’s psychologically immature? Then there’s an issue with dating ANYBODY that is immature or sheltered, which is a much more difficult metric to gauge and standard to set.

Or is it an issue with her chronological age? Then nobody is ever allowed to have interspecies relationships, unless their aging speed matches.

I did actually watch the first and second season, and just never really enjoyed it.

And fair, I wasn’t trying to compare them directly, more pointing out that Star Trek has many episodes that have little to nothing to do with social commentary. And it seemed like that was the ONLY concept being explored in Orville, with sci-fi as a backdrop for funsies.

So your entire complaint is based on vibes and feelings. Got it 👍

I didn’t really like the Orville. Or rather, I wanted to like it, but found myself getting bored with it extremely fast. Every single episode is a new social commentary, without exception.

Obviously, Star Trek has a TONNE of social commentary, so that itself is not the problem. The problem I had, is that Star Trek also has sci-fi mysteries, silly episodes, philosophical questions, etc. I found Orville was just social commentary after social commentary without any of the additional flavours.

My all time favourite episode is Measure of a Man, which of course is a social commentary, but it’s more of a philosophical question of what we consider sentients and “life” to be. Even with Zero, I think his name was? I didn’t get those same vibes.

They’re both computers that can be used in helpful and harmful ways. Can you deliminate how exactly they are different, beyond scope?

How was she a child bride? She was in her psychological mid 20’s to 30’s?

Are you saying that nobody should be allowed to have a relationship with Ocampa, since their biology causes them to die of old age at 9 years old? Separate but equal?

Yes, but that means they’re using the tool incorrect. I can attempt to jam a wrench on the end of a soldering iron and use it to make a circuit board, that doesn’t mean I’m using the tool wrong, and should be justifiably mocked for doing so.

LLMs have their place. The fact they are being wildly abused and misused does not diminish that.

Better be afraid of them new-fangled digital calculators too! Real calculations should be done by people. Having them performed by computers will make us dumber.

It’s a tool. It can be used right and wrong. Being afraid of the tool because it is being used wrong doesn’t make it go away, and doesn’t make it less useful.