Summary
The German government accused Elon Musk of trying to influence its February 2024 general election by endorsing the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.
It acknowledged Musk’s right to express his opinion but dismissed its potential impact, calling his remarks “the greatest nonsense.”
Musk described the AfD as Germany’s “last spark of hope” in an opinion piece for Die Welt, sparking backlash and the resignation of a senior editor.
Musk has also faced accusations of trying to sway the 2024 U.S. election in Donald Trump’s favor.
Won’t someone rid us of this meddlesome billionaire?
Are you perchance the reincarnation of Henry II of England and intend to pull of some more Thomas Beckets?
has also faced accusations of trying to sway the 2024 U.S. election
more like “he bought the US election”
Musk has also faced accusations of trying to sway the 2024 U.S. election in Donald Trump’s favor.
He didn’t TRY, he spent over $250 million to help Trump get elected. And campaigned for Trump so that he could gut any government organization under the guise of “efficiency”. All while funneling government subsidies to his own companies.
I’m fairly certain he did more than just fund and campaign
Me, too. It’s very odd Trump got the popular vote. I live in a very red county and saw very few Trump signs this time around compared to 2016 and 2020. I didn’t mean to be paying much attention to Musk, but as I’ve been researching AI I’ve seen enough of his whereabouts prior to his new team-up with Trump to be incredibly disturbed. I think he wants to become a god.
If Kamala had demanded investigations and recounts instead of heading off to Hawaii to party, oh we’d have found something alright.
I don’t believe she could have without a massive public backlash (and it more likely an investigation would have been from Biden to do that at this point). It’s ridiculous as we have such a double standard, but one side has been dangerously volatile. Regardless, we’re entering some strange( r ) and potentially (more) dangerous times.
Get your shit together and ban the god damn Nazis already.
F.O.E.
Fuck Off, ElonIt’s hard to ban political parties here.
Some people will try this, but our law could stop that…
What’s the temperature over there? I mean, people see Elon as a fuckin hack and a joke, right? He doesn’t have as dedicated of a boot licking club? Or do a good amount of Germans actually buy into his “I’m a genius inventor and a respectable iconoclast who should be listened to” nonsense?
Please tell me he’s going to realize how limited his influence is come February. Please.
Well, unfortunately, we also have idiots here in Germany… There is probably a fan club. Mainly the right voters…
But no, I don’t think, that this changes who builds the next government in Germany.
The Reich voters…
Fixed that for ya
I thought they already did decades ago. What happened?
It is frequently discussed to ban far-right parties. Decades ago, the NPD could have been banned but it was turned down because they were too insignificant (only getting a few percent in elections, if at all).
With the AfD, it’s a different story. They are rather too significant (getting double digit percents). Politicians are worried that if a ban fails, it could give them even more fuel. Some subconscious thought nags me that this wasn’t the actual reason, but it’s the best I can do right now.
And they’re already using Nazi imagery, a felony in Germany
I think you’ve got a point about banning them, regardless of if it’s the reason. It’s what concerns me about Reform being told that they can’t form a government, even though there is a reason why they can’t form one.
No shit. Do something
What?
Blocking X would be a good start.
Yup! It’s literally just a propaganda outlet.
Let’s block it globally and make it worthless.
That’s why Felon Musk is using MAGA to issue threats of the USA implementing policies and tariffs against countries if they ban X. The problem is that the countries relenting to those threats have essentially already been invaded, just not militarily.
16 upvotes for calling for blocking websites, wtf has the world come to and wtf happened to “information wants to be free”
There’s information, then there’s misinformation, and then there’s disinformation.
Everything of consequence Musk spews is the latter.
Him having an gigantic platform to do it with where he also gets to manipulate what others get to say doesn’t set information free. It imprisons it.
Freedom of speech is not a freedom to lie.
I disagree. I despise Trump and Elon, but I think you should be allowed to say the dumbest shit anyone has ever heard as long as you aren’t calling for violence.
you should be allowed to say the dumbest shit anyone has ever heard
And
as long as you aren’t calling for violence.
You’ve already established the concept, now we’re just negotiating the threshold.
I think there is a huge difference between Musk expressing and pushing an opinion and Twitter doing the same.
Musk should be free to be an idiot, Twitter less so.
You can disagree as much as you want to, but that’s the fact. “Freedom of speach” refers to freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. Not to “freedom to spread lies to achieve political gains”
Indeed, if you say something that is wrong, but you believe it’s true then you should be protected.
But if you’re knowingly lying? Not so much.
The first amendment will simply not allow you to scream “FIRE!” in a crowded theater.
So just block anybody who supports a candidate you don’t want them to?
Or block someone who has a disproportionate platform to communicate his views?
I suppose the Fairness Doctrine tried to handle that but was thrown out. Perhaps time to bring it back? That way everybody gets equal air/message time?
Question for me is, why is it important to ‘protect’ a foreigner to meddle with a country where he does not belong? And why does this person want to meddle with foreign elections? I would argue that a country has every right to assess, evaluate and take action whenever it decides that person has an influence on its election process. He (Musk) is no citizen of Germany and therefore should not be allowed to interfere. Expressing an opinion is fine until that person has a platform where this opinion starts to sway and influence that election. In that case I refer to my statement above about the Fairness Doctrine.
Fair warning: I do appreciate a discussion on this but if it will involve words like 'woke and the likes then I cease to be interested in that discussion
Or block someone who has a disproportionate platform to communicate his views?
I mean - how do you craft a fair law that can be applied to everybody by people in office you don’t trust (e.g. the “other party”) that would make this work? Without going “full dictator” to make it happen?
The “fairness doctrine” is antithetical to freedom of speech. It only was acceptable because it only applied to “broadcast medium” (radio and TV waves) which are a shared and limited resource.
I am growing more and more concerned about how little liberals seem to care about freedom of speech to be honest. Every time some billionaire idiot says something stupid people want draconian speech laws to restrict it without ever considering how laws like that backfire.
Freedom of Speech is an American thing. Other countries have restrictions on speech. Personally, I like them.
It’s already illegal in the US to say untrue things about a person. Whether criminal or civil, I don’t know, but it’d probably be illegal to say something like “Elon Musk is a pedophile”, unless that were probably true.
Freedom of speech doesn’t need to be absolute, clearly, for people to be able to speak the truth and their opinions.
It’s already illegal in the US to say untrue things about a person.
It is a civil violation, not a crime. And it’s only untrue if you claim it to be truth rather than opinion.
You can claim that you believe Musk is a pedophile all you like.
Freedom of Speech is an American thing.
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression and to receive and impart information. This right also covers the freedom of the press. Freedom of expression is one of the essential foundations of a democratic society. The media require particular protection because they play a key role in defending freedom of expression. Article 10 protects, among others, the right to criticise, to make assumptions or value judgments and the right to have opinions.
Such protection is not restricted to “true” statements; it applies in particular to political speech and debate on questions of public interest. Freedom of expression plays a key role in elections. Artistic expression is also protected by Article 10.
So if I read you right we can just about do nothing with what we face. We can all see what is happening and any action to remedy it is worrying and potentially a dictatorship, a decline in freedom of speech even.
Sometimes you can clearly see what is happening and normal counter behavior is not working. The ‘other’ side is not adhering to your standards of democracy and is in fact using your standards against you. This sounds like the playbook from the right: they can do and say shit all day long as they are not held to the same standards as liberals are. Liberals need to be pitch perfect or else they face internal backlash. Conservatives on the other hand can literally shit in the halls of the capitol and face no consequences. And that is the least of our problems, they also use democracy to eliminate it, to turn lives of others in a dystopian hellhole and they will not only succeed, they are cheered on by a large portion of society.
But whatever, this is what America wants. There was an election and they won, end of story. I can’t even get mad anymore, if this is what the people want then by all means, this is what they get. Who am I to say people voted wrong? It is a free country where you get to pick you representatives, even if it means these same representatives will use that gained power to erode the same system they used to get elected.
I don’t blame conservatives to be honest, I blame the rest for allowing this to happen and who are repulsed and get morally conflicted when counter measures are suggested if things start to go south. In my opinion you do need strong actions to preserve democracy, measures that are sometimes in conflict with the whole idea of democracy. We need to learn that preserving democracy is sometimes an ugly business which requires dirty hands once in a while. But if that is not palatable then we are doomed to lose it because guess what, the other side has no such restrictions or moral conflicts, they will take it away from you.
So if I read you right we can just about do nothing with what we face
Ahh - there it is. This is where the leftists and maga overlap. Nihilism and the belief that you need control to make things right because they want to destroy everything!
Sometimes you can clearly see what is happening and normal counter behavior is not working. The ‘other’ side is not adhering to your standards of democracy and is in fact using your standards against you. This sounds like the playbook from the right: they can do and say shit all day long as they are not held to the same standards as liberals are. Liberals need to be pitch perfect or else they face internal backlash. Conservatives on the other hand can literally shit in the halls of the capitol and face no consequences. And that is the least of our problems, they also use democracy to eliminate it, to turn lives of others in a dystopian hellhole and they will not only succeed, they are cheered on by a large portion of society.
I could replace “Conservative” with “libs” and “left” with “right” and post this on truth social.
But whatever, this is what America wants. There was an election and they won, end of story. I can’t even get mad anymore, if this is what the people want then by all means, this is what they get. Who am I to say people voted wrong? It is a free country where you get to pick you representatives, even if it means these same representatives will use that gained power to erode the same system they used to get elected.
You’re not wrong - you lost. Deal with that. But it doesn’t mean you can’t fight back. But do so with words and convincing people of your virtue rather than jumping to “silence the opposition”.
You want to do something? Run for office. Work for a campaign. Get signatures. Do work rather than whining on lemmy.
I’ll make it really simple: YES.
if they’re a political extreme who preaches intolerance, they must be ruthlessly crushed, driven out and silenced, by any means necessary.
Neat. Which governing authority do you trust judging who is a “political extreme” - and keep in mind people like Trump can be in power.
Governing authority, as in government body? Absolutely none.
There must be absolute separation from the judiciary, who are responsible for upholding the law.
Who passes laws?
Not anybody. The richest man in the world, who has been taking blatant steps to sway global elections, and his propaganda machine.
So if elon drops to being the 2nd richest man in the world, then he’s all good to continue ?
So you’re going to pass a law that says what - “the richest man in the world can’t talk shit?”
The top 1% must legally STFU? Deal!
Maybe they’ll be rushing to get rid of enough money to put them into a lower tax bracket if they want to keep yapping, lol
That referendum would succeeded SO FAST.
No, just nazis.
Pithy but stupid.
What is stupid in banning nazis sweetheart? Have you considered what would have happened if nazis and nazi propaganda was banned in 1930’?
Look kid - there is no global “mommy and daddy” who can be trusted to do exactly what you want unless you are personally a dictator.
So when you say “oh, just ban Nazis” you have no idea what that involves.
Just answer me this one question - if you give Donald Trump the law “nazis can be banned” how do you think he is going to implement that law? Because there are very good odds that ABC News will be defined as a Nazi propaganda organization.
X is a person now? OK…
Interestingly that’s a point I had not yet made - that blocking “X” because of what the CEO says in his personal time is also problematic. You’re going to potentially harm a lot more people than him.
Indeed, fucking Musk and his Moscow buddies. They succeeded to sway the US voters to drink plenty of piss filled Orange Kool-Aid.
What?!? No way, he’s a billionaire and they’re nothing but good.
Everyone donates money, he didn’t send that much.
What’s a few hundred million between friends? He’s a supporter of their economy which is like being a shareholder.
It’s not Elon’s fault other people aren’t using that much money.
He didn’t know it was illegal, it was just an oopsie daisy.
Germany was in danger of electing another Socialist government like Hitler, something had to be done!
For Reference-
- That didn’t happen.
- And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
- And if it was, that’s not a big deal. (<— We Are Here)
- And if it is, that’s not my fault.
- And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
- And if I did, you deserved it.
Germany, if you’re listening, you know what would be REALLY funny right now?
It’d be so hilarious if they just elected a labor focused socialist government right now. Gosh they’d be so transgressive and cool.
No party currently over 5% would ever fit that description.
Quoth the current foundational programme of the SPD:
Our history is shaped by the idea of democratic socialism, a society of free and equal people where our core values are realized. It requires a structure in economy, state and society guaranteeing civil, political, social and economic basic rights for all people living a life without exploitation, suppression and violence, hence in social and human security.
The end of the soviet type state socialism did not disprove the idea of democratic socialism but it clearly confirmed the orientation of social democracy towards core values. In our understanding democratic socialism remains the vision of a free and fair society in solidarity. Its realization is a permanent task for us. The principle for our actions is social democracy.The Seeheimer Circle may have captured what the SPD is doing, but it has not yet captured what it’s saying it wants to do. Also as of the latest polls they’re still above 5%, Scholz nonwithstanding.
Yes, thats what they say they want to do. But at the end of the day they will just govern together with CDU and have “stomach ache” again
They say that. But words are cheap. They have been part of the government for two thirds of my life so far and not much to show for in that regard. Quite the opposite actually.
And that’s before we go look back in time why they are called traitors. So no, the sPD does not fit that description.
If they are not socialists, then how can they be traitors. If they were conservatives, you’d say “yep, that’s expected”, not “they betrayed their values and their base”.
The fucking South African neo-Nazi, Elon, is working with the POS Putin to divide Germany.
Let somebody else be the Nazis for once Germany. It’s the US’s turn.
If it helps, you were always the nazis in my heart
And that of pre-Nazi Hitler. He got a lot of his ideas from Jim Crow and American bigotry in general.
A consensus of elected people. Also INDEPENDENT from the government.
Can you please educate yourself? That’s not my burden.
oh no febrary is jst ard the corr
fuck.
